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Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:51 am
by TH - The Hunt
What are you blathering about this for? The whole problem is bringing genetic science into a place it doesn't belong. That you're getting it wrong while doing it is just frosting on the mud pie.

Using the phrase 'Masetians are extinct' is fine if you're just using that as a casual way to say 'Masetians aren't around anymore', but it doesn't make sense if you're stressing the word you're using because 'Masetian' is not a species. Masetians, like all the others, are humans. Humans still exist, including non-Masetian descendants of the Masetians--including an entire syncretic culture the Masetians were absorbed into. There are descendents of the Rjurik, too, there was no magic that eliminated all genetic traces of them and there doesn't need to be because genetic science does not play a role in this setting or genre.

For the Rjurik to be gone, all that needs to be gone is what the term represents, which is not technical or genetic because 'Rjurik' was a nationality/culture. They can't be played because they aren't extant, not because they 'are extinct'. Does that mean the same thing in conservation science? Yes! So, go ahead and use the word as long as you're not using it seriously and in the wrong context. That leads to confusion--including this whole genetics and biology tangent!

The bird-men, yeah they actually are extinct--no one of their species still lives (or so we think). That makes it a fully appropriate use of that word.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:53 am
by TH - The Hunt
I wish this was just semantics but I get the feeling it's not just 'you keep using that word' but also some weird ideas you have about 'race'.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:08 am
by TF - The Fortress
Species refers to Homo Sapiens - i.e. Humans and their ability to reproduce young (generally with two legs, two eyes, two arms, a nose, a mouth, etc).

Race is a social construct based on unified identity through hereditary physical characteristics. Rjurik were a 'RACE' and have 'RACIAL MODIFIERS' due to these hereditary physical characteristics. They are extinct, because the race is extinct per Juan.

Masetians were also a race with hereditary physical characteristics. They are also extinct, because the race is extinct per Juan.

Human is the species.
Race for Birthright Humans are as follows: Anuireans, Brecht, Khinasi, and Vos. Once upon a time there were Masetians and Rjurik, they are both now extinct -- again per Juan.

Argue what you want, but pay attention to the key words here -- Juan said the Rjurik and Masetians are extinct, that's really the end of the story. Write whatever fluff and crazy nonsense you want to about them, but they are not available as a playable race because they are extinct. You can have someone claim they are Rjurik or Masetian all they want (heck you can even have someone claim they are one of the Bird-Men of Kamoshka) -- we need more Rachel Dolezal's (this is pure sarcasm now in case you can't tell the difference).

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:20 am
by TH - The Hunt
Race Nationality is a social construct based on a shared identity through hereditary physical characteristics.

These characteristics can be hereditary, but they don't need to be, otherwise Anuireans would no longer have them. As described in the book, 'after centuries of contact' Anuireans, as a 'race', no longer have defining physical characteristics.

'Race' is a sloppy term that clearly causes you some confusion--confusion that gets you worked up about heredity and with unnecessary chauvinism. You get even more confused by the term 'racial modifiers' being applied to human nationalities. This is why more modern RPGs steer clear of it, because this kind of confusion (and the bleed-in of chauvinism) keeps happening.

You can say 'Masetians are extinct' all you want, but it's the wrong word to use. Since it's not any more difficult to say 'There are no more Masetians', which is a phrase I will cheerfully report back to you without argument, I'm left to draw the conclusion you really like using the term 'extinction' even though it's misleading and inaccurate. I'd ask what that's about, but do I really want to know? I don't think so.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:25 am
by TH - The Hunt
...Maybe you're projecting a little? Like, you seem upset because you're imagining I want something you apparently wanted and weren't able to get, and yet I asked for the same thing (though of course when I asked for the same thing I didn't mean it the same way) in Diaspora I and did get what I wanted, because what I wanted didn't require any sort of concession. There was plenty of room to have a variety of subcultures inside the Khinasi portion of Namel's realm beneath the level of resolution for drawing mechanical distinctions.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:43 am
by TF - The Fortress
No, as usual you are wrong and missing the mark yet again :)

The difference is you wanted fluff Masetians (Masetian in name without the defining hereditary traits and characteristics -- ie Rachel Dolezal being a Caucasian and with no hereditary traits and characteristics of the race she claimed to be of) -- while I actually worked on creating non-fluff ones (ie with racial bonuses of a stat adjustment sort).

This goes back to fluff vs mechanics. You can write all you want about a kingdom of Karamuhl in Morionad, however the racial type for the province was Sidhe. For purposes of all game mechanics, the racial type for Morionad was Sidhe. When we are talking racial bonuses and modifiers, we are talking game mechanics, so stick with the group and don't get left behind -- we're talking actual game mechanics and modifiers to races as opposed to fluff writing what they had for dinner and are doing for cultural diversity.

As far as what I've wanted, you have always served up entertainment and I've appreciated it each and every time :)

Diaspora I, Namel was conquered and beaten like a drum by Dhoesone.
Flight from Shadows, Areida saw her lands conquered and she was beaten like a drum.
Kraken, Fiona burned down half of Khonecys lands and hired the giants to finish the job so she could skip off with her huge payoff.
Diaspora IV, Morcuan sold himself down the river in the Ecumenical Council (even with all the warnings) and I got to watch Morionad get burned down and beaten like a drum.

So, while it's not necessarily what I always wanted, it's sure been entertaining to watch and make side-bets on how quickly you can have your characters bring your realm tumbling down each game. :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:53 am
by TH - The Hunt
Do you even know what Masetians looked like? Chauvinism based on +1s and -1s on a character sheet, that's really something.

In Diaspora I, Daene was beaten harder by Dhoesone and by Namel than Namel.
In II, you needed four people to just barely get the result you wanted--oh right, the result you would retcon yourself to have wanted, as you wanted something you'll never get--and the dice could have gone the other way.
In III, Fiona caused a plague. She didn't burn down anything, but she sure did get burned down in the aftermath. The giants just joined forces with Khonceys, because why not? If I'd exploited the game mechanics half as hard as you did, you would have gotten wiped out by the game's last turn instead of a turn or two afterward.
You're just as ignorant about this game, but I'd be glad to explain when it's over, not that you're capable of understanding.

I wonder what it would take for you to realize you have nothing to be smug about, and that your head is full of wrong ideas?

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:04 am
by TF - The Fortress
Daene was never conquered and never swore anyone vassalage because they whipped him in a war :)

In Flight, I have no idea how you think it was 'just barely' the result I wanted? I got the Duergar a nice new homeland and a bunch of other people got rid of the trash that was in the way :)

In Kraken, you invaded multiple times and had your butt handed to you each time without any serious effort at a defense on our part. When you were clearly going to be the annoying mosquito, Fiona had you squashed. And swearing fealty to the giants so you could retain your provinces isn't the giants joining forces with Khonecys, it is Khonecys becoming their vassal because she was whupped silly from one end of her lands to the other. As to what game mechanics I exploited, please more detail here. You actually had less done to you than what the game mechanics called for.

And who is smug? I'm just enjoying watching you get slapped around game after game and blaming everyone but yourself for your situation :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:06 am
by TF - The Fortress
By the way, it is way past 10pm again, please make sure to go to bed in a timely fashion so you aren't later claiming that 'I forced you to stay up too late' as an excuse again. :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:13 am
by TH - The Hunt
It's convenient that you answered your question by demonstrating exactly what smugness looks like.

Khonceys didn't 'get squashed', Fiona did. Projecting, huh?

I never said you 'forced me to stay up late', what you actually did was ruin your own RP interaction by pushing it after you were told you had already pushed it too far and nothing substantial would be provided to you if you continued.

Maybe this is what happens if I tell you to 'get bent' too many times. You get so bent you end up stuck this way.