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Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 am
by TF - The Fortress
Fiona walked out with 100 GBs and a new identity and got to kill 'Mask' during the latest God-Smack Fest --- I'd say that's not squashed, but clearly what do I know :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:23 am
by TH - The Hunt
Ha, allegedly. And that's any more than Khonceys accomplished how?

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:26 am
by TF - The Fortress
This is why I like our little talks :)

You make a statement, lose out on it and try to shift to a new topic, then you lose on that one as well, but you just keep trying to dig new holes thinking eventually something will come together and work out. It's incredibly fun and engaging and definitely helps pass the time for me :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:28 am
by TH - The Hunt
You make a statement, lose out on it and try to shift to a new topic, then you lose on that one as well, but you just keep trying to dig new holes thinking eventually something will come together and work out. It's incredibly fun and engaging and definitely helps pass the time for me :)
Projecting. You spam garbage, line after line, angle after angle. And I know you're not doing this for fun, you're driven by fear, lust, and insecurity.

Did you know Namel never swore vassalage? She agreed to a treaty which included her being 'considered to be' the vassal of Dhoesone for the purpose of two provinces, although it was only ever enforced in one of them. So, every province in her realm aside from that one remained sovereign--and that one remained low level, because this removed her incentive to rule it up.

In Flight, what you really wanted was to subjugate Areida, and you failed. You threw a tantrum instead, a tantrum you repeated and repeated and by all measures appear set to continue repeating throughout this game and the next. Even what you're doing now is part of your desperate efforts to either convince me and others that you're not as bad as you make yourself look, and that I am somehow worse than you, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:32 am
by TF - The Fortress
You think I wanted to subjugate Areida. Rogr actually kept trying to give you holdings and lands at first, several attempts to do so. He felt sorry for Areida since she was clearly socially inept and a bungling war leader.

Not sure what tantrum you think happened then or later.

And I have no need to convince anyone of anything, you dig your own graves well enough without me even looking for a shovel to help you dig with (see Ecumenical Council and the desolation of Morionad).


Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:36 am
by TH - The Hunt
No, he didn't try to give Areida lands or holdings. He tried to pack her army onto ships to become pocket mercenaries for him. Nice to see you veer into outright revisionism. It's novel after all the willful ignorance.

Funny how the 'socially inept and bungling war leader' managed to hang on until the end of the game while the supposedly man-who-was-not-that is the one who ended up literally at war with his own spouse.

You give the Ecumenical Council too much credit.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:52 am
by TF - The Fortress
You mean this one where he literally offered to save AF in exchange for vassalage and helping AF get back on her feet again? You spin so many words you don't even recognize when genuine offers are being made.

Turn 7 was before the forming of the Grand Duchy. Had AF agreed she'd have had a province and holdings again. Well, she did agree, but if she had actually followed through with her agreement instead of turning tail when she realized she couldn't just steal the boats...
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Namel to Rogr requesting rescue of her and her troops
On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 10:29 PM Amy Mason <> wrote:
A letter, weeks later:

"If not for me, my people would have already perished seeking vengeance against Anwnn. I recognize who dealt the first blow, who was 'rash' and made the first mistake. It is convenient for you to lay blame where it is most immediately profitable to you, but when you confuse this with what is right, you err grievously. I do not fault you for this, it is your nature. But be wary of releasing your tongue from its leash around those you believe cannot harm you. Some day you will lick something that bites back at all you own, not only your face."

(It is signed with Areida's Vos runes.)
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Response from Rogr to Namel on her desire for rescue

John Wright <>
Jun 3, 2019, 9:00 AM
to Amy, Juan

As the spring winds on and the various wars play out, message is delivered to the routed forces on the eastern mountains.


I would offer one last time to aid you. It may not be the aid you seek or desire, and such is your choice to make.

Come work for me as a vassal. I will provide you succor and safety and ensure you have the opportunity to train and lead warriors in battle again.

If you agree immediately, I will have your troops safely transported from the Isle and to a new home where they can recover. Your men and your ships and your life would be mine to dictate though. As a businessman, I have no desire to waste life, especially those of us refugees.

Merchant-Prince Smith,
Baron of Graven"
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Namel to Rogr
Amy Mason <>
Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 9:25 AM
to me, Juan

Areida agrees, and kneels and says in Sidhelien before boarding,

"It is not the aid we seek or desire, but we choose to accept it. I will henceforth be your vassal, accepting your succor and safety, and ensuring I will have the opportunity to train and lead warriors into battle again. We accept this safe transport from the Isle to a new home where we can recover. Our men, and ships, and my life are yours to dictate, knowing you are 'a businessman', and have no desire to waste lives, especially those of refugees."
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Response from Rogr
John Wright <>
Jun 3, 2019, 9:29 AM
to Amy, Juan

Rogr listens and responds in Sidhelien, "I accept your vassalage and trust in your honor to do as you have said. In turn, I will do as I have said, giving you and yours succor and safety, and a chance to train and lead warriors in battle again. I will not waste the lives of you or yours needlessly, for they have value and are of worth. And in the days ahead, I will ensure you are able to grow strong once more."

" We will have a formal investiture later, but for now let us make sail away."

Her and her troops are allowed to board and passage is made to the southwest.
However AF's troops did not board because you realized Rogr actually was smart enough to recognize a thief and liar in advance and had the audacity and foresight to actually bring ships with enough troops to ensure you didn't try and steal the ships when we departed the Isle of Deeds. However, you then had AF and her remaining troops suicide into Corrach because that was clearly a better deal than actually having a province, holdings, and steady income again. Same offer was made to Shu Ai, and then Krake later.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:11 am
by TF - The Fortress
Or maybe you meant this...
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Krake asking for help for the Isle of Deads to Rogr
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:22 AM Amy Mason <> wrote:
(OOC: Had a few minor errors, anyway!)

"Put yourself in her shoes for a moment. She was fighting desperately to overcome an enemy intent on the destruction of everything she holds dear, and you offered to provide her with ships. She could have used those ships to defend her people--and you clearly had the ability to save them, as well, and were attempting to use extortion to compel her service. By her code of honour, this would immediately disqualify you as even a permissible liege, much less one she'd prefer. That's something of a self-defeating judgement error, there.

"She would have failed to do her duty if she did not lie to you, in the hopes it might help her protect her people. Relatedly, you misunderstood her completely when you offered to separate her and her warriors from Corrach and its people. She's not a mercenary warlord, that's my shtick. She's a chieftain and high priestess. So betraying her people for personal gain is not an option, nor is selling them all into slavery.

"Let me tell you of when I was hired by Areida. After losing my previous employer during a siege, my company found itself in dire straits, not unlike those Areida was in when you made your offer to her. An important difference was, I was a mercenary, and had no attachment to the city's defense. I'll note the professional soldiers, and even militia, there, did not abdicate their duties as soldiers or citizens.

"So, I was happy to find that a cryptic stranger arrived to offer me an advance payment, and some magic portals for me and my comrades to jump through and escape from the siege to a remote island. Once there, I found others present, including Areida, who I quickly learned was the Chosen of Mask, and she'd be performing my job interview. It was almost normal, despite the circumstances. Lots of questions, a few nights spend wondering if I got the job, and a handshake at the end. The other candidates were given a choice, to return where they came, or else join my company. Most chose the latter, perhaps due to the sort of places Mask goes headhunting...

"I know we couldn't expect this from you, nor would it have worked even if you had come with gifts and a magic portal with no strings attached. The reason is because Areida can't abandon her obligations. She has to set an example for her followers, and that example is not 'betray your followers when protecting them becomes inconvenient'. Before she can act as a mercenary, Corrach has to be safe, first. It's not as though there isn't a litany of other excellent reasons to liberate Corrach, just now. But, the island must be protected. Even if she were not restricted to swearing vassalage to an honorable leader who is clearly stronger and better suited for power than herself (or to a greater cause of some kind), even if you were an absolute paragon or your mission beyond reproach, she would still need to defend her people. She can't sell them out. If saving her own skin was her priority, she would never have become a chieftain in the first place.

"Instead of railing against her because she is honourable, it would seem to benefit you more to use her as an asset. Your terms were insulting and oppressive at the meeting in Gravenport, you attempted to separate her from those she's obligated to lead--and them from their families--effectively buying them. That's what makes it 'slavery'--you didn't ask for her as a vassal ruler, you asked her to sell out everyone on the island and keep our elites in your personal stable. It just makes no sense. Why not take advantage of her sense of duty? It would be easy for you, right now-just protect the island's shores and help us knock over their little occupation force, and give us terms of employment. Not divided into slaves and pets, but as a single unit. Because Areida and the Isle of Deeds are a single unit."
[+] Turn 7 - Flight - Response to Krake from Rogr

John Wright <>
Jun 6, 2019, 11:38 PM
to Amy, Juan

His reply is sent back to Krake in Riven.



You seem decent enough. You almost make me feel sorry for your chieftainess, almost. I'm a businessman first and foremost though. So in business, when an offer is made and then turned down the first time, no hard feelings and no deal is made. When it is asked for again, usually the price goes up, it's a clear matter of supply and demand. The service or item asked for, while turned down previously, obviously has the value or more that it did in the first instance. When such is agreed to, a deal is made. Such a deal was made and would stand up in any court of law. Areida knew the cost of my aid and still asked for it. She chose to renege on the deal though, not showing at the designated spot.

Now, a third time the service -- more than the service -- is requested. I've a mind to say, the price is slavery now. But I have no desire for slaves.

You write of how and why you serve Areida, I'll be blunt, I care not. Serve her or don't serve her, such is your choice. That Shu-Ai has gone off with her ships is mutiny and I'd execute my captains myself, or Shu-Ai is doing so at her direction and it is not barratry. I really don't care which. The threat as to her ships joining the Unseelie does nothing for me. Her ships fled my own and will flee again, whether they are with the Unseelie or not. The Unseelie already know of our location, so the 'intelligence' she carries is of minimal and nominal value at best.

You speak of many different things, all of which require Corrach to be freed for me to receive. For most of my services, I take half payment up front. Yet, I have a feeling you have nothing to give me right now in the least as any form of surety or collateral.

Additionally, you claim all you need is a blockade of the island. Such a blockade will invite conflict. And so that is a 25 GB base price. I understand funds are limited, so what do you offer specifically in return to cover such and ensure I make good on my investment and the opportunity lost by engaging another fleet at sea?

You also claim you can overcome the island occupation forces. How and with what men? You also ask for me to send troops, which is not beyond reasonable, but such would increase the costs significantly.

The only one who seems to have honor is you, I will not mistake her for having any. You've already indicated she can lie to me happily and say whatever -- so you must realize your own job is harder by her previous actions and words. You want assistance, I speak to her -- in person -- in Gravenport. If we make an agreement, she surrenders to me and remains in my prison until after the agreement is carried through and payment rendered. She does not run off. She does not say one thing and deliver another. If it turns out to be a ploy, then I will spend my summer ensuring the isle is wiped clean of her beliefs -- and I care not for what religions are around.

Merchant-Prince Smith,
Baron of Graven"

Oh wait -- this one is Krake basically saying he wants an army and a fleet to help him, but he has nothing to offer for it and so the collateral being asked for was AF as a hostage.

Dang this one doesn't show a tantrum yet either --- it's almost like Rogr wanted to help AF out, but she kept getting in her own way -- and then Krake kept doing the same kind of stuff...

There may be a trend here. The discussions were entertaining, basically you were always trying to get something for nothing and never followed through on any promises or agreements. And then oddly enough, no one ever expects you to follow through on them with any sort of regularity. It's almost as if your characters lie and scheme and claim all kinds of stuff -- and never deliver on any of it.

Hrm, I wonder if this is a trend for your characters.... :)

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:13 am
by TH - The Hunt
No, moron. AF's troops didn't board because the only circumstance under which she could board without violating her code of honour was the one in which she could take control of the fleet and use it to defend her people. You failed to describe it, so it looked like you'd sent a reasonable transport fleet. What you'd really sent was a fleet more than twice the size of Areida's army, with the excess ships loaded with marines.

Even if she could accept your offer in without betraying her people and losing her paladin status, the stupid huge fleet demonstrated that Rogr himself was a paranoid weakling who was overcompensating for something and she would have refused to board in disgust regardless. If he'd been brave enough to resist her attempts to betray him without the use of overwhelming force, or if he'd been shrewd enough to split his fleet so that Areida wouldn't get to see the ones full of marines until they reached open sea, then you might have been able to capture her. As it was, you blundered in-character--and out-of-character, you blundered by failing to adequately describe the fleet you had actually sent.

I understand part of the reason you sent such a huge fleet is because you didn't want the other navies in the area to get any ideas, but you spoiled your own game by trying too hard to win, just like always.

I was wondering what was taking you so long.

Re: Cultue, Traits, and Evolution

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:17 am
by TH - The Hunt
There may be a trend here, indeed. It's interesting how people keep expecting better from you than they actually get, but keep expecting worse from me than they actually get. It's almost like you get more credit than you deserve, somehow, and desperately try to discredit anyone who pokes holes in your alternate reality bubble.