War, Leadership Units

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DM Juan
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War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:27 pm

Some general points

Leadership command units (ie, DC units)
- they require a unit to be with them to enter a battle (you cannot initiate a battle with just a DC unit)
- they will fight until the end of a war move, if all units other than them are dead, with chance of capture at end of war move
- they will not fight into a new war move, if they are the only units to have survived the battle in the previous war move.

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DM Juan
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:43 am

War Moves, and clarifying rules:
[+] Original
--- When you Declare War, you are allowed 3 war moves per action, that turn ---
1) Movement:
-A) Ships can move their movement-rate provinces per War Move; loading/moving/unloading takes at least 1 full war move (within movement-rate provinces).
-B) Movement takes up the War Move(s) involved. Movement is limited by unit movement rate compared to terrain. Therefore, eg: A unit with Move 2 takes 2 war moves to reach a Heavy Forest province; battle would take place in War Move 3. Crossing a River takes up a full war move. Roads reduce all movement costs to 1.
2) Battle (1 war move = 3 rounds of battle); battle starts during the movement in which it is initiated. Battles use up any movement left during the war moves in which they take place
3) Occupation takes 3 war moves (1 Action) to complete
4) You may Pillage 1/action instead 1/war move; this takes up 1 full action of war moves to do.
5) You cannot undertake the same War Move in the same province, at the same time (ie, you cannot have 2 armies pillage a province at the same time, but you could have 1 province-level army pillage a province, and another province-level army drive down sources simultaneously)
6) Each War Move requires a PC/LT having used a Declare War (already the case, just being clarified)
7) You cannot disrupt occupation (or pillaging later) attempts by starting battles. Once someone defeats the defenders the first time, and commences occupation, you can only dislodge it by dislodging the invaders (that is, if they start occupation in action 1, war move 3, and you fight them in action 2 war moves 1 and 2, but they are still there with province_level units, they will have successfully occupied the province) - occupation of holdings can occur simultaneously as occupation of the province.
8) All hits taken by levels stick with the army until end of turn (this is also already a rule, but to reinforce it's existence)
9) Each level of Castle protects a level of the province from Pillaging.
10) Destroy Building [Castle levels above province/holding level may protect 1 building per level of overage] - requires the province to be occupied or besieged before this can be done.
11) Destroy Holding (any non-source), that is at 0 in a province you own. You must first occupy the province. You cannot destroy holdings in a foreign realm (see p66-67 of rulebook)
12) Drive down source level by 1
13) Besiege Castle @ 1 level per turn - automatically occurring after first use of action, unless # of troops falls below castle level
14) Assault Castle - reduces castle @ 1 per action [ie, per 3 war moves]
15) Drive Down holding (any non-source), to 0 - this first requires the holding/province to be occupied.
Some rewrites for clarity wrote:--- When you Declare War, you are allowed 3 war moves per action---
1) Movement:
-A) Ships can move their movement-rate provinces per War Move; loading/moving/unloading takes at least 1 full war move (within movement-rate provinces).
-B) Movement takes up the War Move(s) involved. Movement is limited by unit movement rate compared to terrain. Therefore, eg: A unit with Move 2 takes 2 war moves to reach a Heavy Forest province; battle would take place in War Move 3. Crossing a River takes up a full war move. Roads reduce all movement costs to 1.
2) Battle (1 war move = 3 rounds of battle); battle starts during the movement in which it is initiated. Battles use up any movement left during the war moves in which they take place
3) Occupation takes 3 war moves (1 Action) to complete; this takes up all the war moves involved
4) You may Pillage once per 3 war moves (taking up all 3 war moves to do)
5) You cannot undertake the same War Move in the same province, at the same time (ie, you cannot have 2 armies pillage a province at the same time, but you could have 1 province-level army pillage a province, and another province-level army drive down sources simultaneously)
6) Each War Move IN A PARTICULAR province requires a PC/LT having used a Declare War (you can have 1 war leader simultaneously occupy 7 provinces, but not simultaneously occupy and pillage the same province)
7) You cannot disrupt occupation (or pillaging later) attempts by starting battles. Once someone defeats the defenders the first time, and commences occupation, you can only dislodge it by dislodging the invaders (that is, if they start occupation in action 1, war move 3, and you fight them in action 2 war moves 1 and 2, but they are still there with province_level units, they will have successfully occupied the province) - occupation of holdings can occur simultaneously as occupation of the province.
8) All hits taken by units stick with the army until end of turn (this is also already a rule, but to reinforce it's existence)
9) Each level of Castle protects a level of the province from Pillaging.
10) Destroy Building [Castle levels above province/holding level may protect 1 building per level of overage] - requires the province to be occupied or besieged before this can be done.
11) Destroy Holding (any non-source), that is at 0 in a province you own. You must first occupy the province. You cannot destroy holdings in a foreign realm (see p66-67 of rulebook)
12) Drive down source level by 1
13) Besiege Castle @ 1 level per turn - automatically occurring after first use of action, unless # of troops falls below castle level
14) Assault Castle - reduces castle @ 1 per action [ie, per 3 war moves]
15) Drive Down holding (any non-source), to 0 - this first requires the holding/province to be occupied.
===================
Things that can be done simultaneously (if you have sufficient leaders who declared war), versus things that cannot. And things that have to happen before other things can happen:

Logically, occupation has to finish before you can do: 11 (as noted directly in the description of it), 12, 15 - this means you would need a 4th war move to do them (and fifth, sixth etc to drive the sources even further). Also, 11 requires 15 to first take place, though you could potentially do 11 and 15 "simultaneously"... maybe (we should confirm/cement this so we all have the same understanding).
You must assault a castle before you can occupy
#9 Indicates that you can pillage without occupation, and that you can pillage anything above the castle level. This is as intended.
You cannot do the same war move simultaneously in the same province, so you cannot double-assault to reduce 2 castle levels, or double source-drive down, or double-pillage. These seem like the most probable ones to raise issue on, so noting it.

On Source Reduction:
- You need someone in the province who can "see" the sources. Either the occupier, or the war actor is a Wizard, or a wizard has a holding in the province. I don't think it should be sufficient for a wizard to "point it out" as a free action. If they have a holding, rule the province, etc - that would count though to let them do it as a free action.

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DM Juan
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:50 am

Winter: Occupation can continue, you cannot take other war moves (drive down holdings, etc etc) unless they are undertaken by undead (or Frost Giants).
[+] Attrition
During the winter month, any unit 'outside' has a 60% chance of dying/deserting. During the Spring/Fall any unit 'outside' has a 20% chance of dying/deserting. 'Outside' will be deemed to be either a) in a hostile province, or b) when there are more units in a province than the province level + fortification (which unit will suffer attrition check will be determined at random if the province and fortification owners do not specify which units are protected). Fortified Holdings can house units belonging to the fortified holding owner, up to it's fortification level. Units on a ship are counted as 'outside' and furthermore, if the ships they are onboard sink (if engaging in military action), all units onboard automatically are considered to have failed the attrition check. Attrition checks are made each action round.

Winter Battles & Movement:
During the Winter Season, the only military unit that is allowed to take part in War Actions are undead. Sieges and occupation will continue, but expect heavy losses (see attrition). Units may move during winter, however any movement of units during winter results in an Attrition check per province moved to. They cannot move by sea.
Just a general re-post on this re winter war, which is a bit hidden under Attrition. So no one is caught off guard.

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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by TH - The Hunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:58 am

An occupied province still counts as hostile until divested, right?
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DM Juan
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:01 am

Hostile in what sense?
Like rebels will fight the occupier? Yes.

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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by TH - The Hunt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:11 am

For the purpose of attrition. So, if a province is occupied successfully in mid-autumn, the occupation forces will suffer 20% attrition in the next action, 60% in the one after that, and possibly another 60% during the action where the divestiture can take place.

The 'winter battles and movement' section suggests that heavy losses from attrition are likely if an occupation continues into the winter, but it's never been made clear whether occupied provinces count as part of their own realm or the occupier's realm for military purposes. Like whether administrative movement can position troops there.
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:21 am

Yes, you are still hostile if occupying.

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:22 am

Should be: Province owner or his allies get the province's shelter until/unless all their units have been killed or driven out. Once the enemy begins it's first occupation it gets the province's shelter until/unless all their units are killed or driven out. Then it swaps back.

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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:23 am

I would expect an occupied province 2 to shelter 2 occupying units. Its subdued, no longer hostile per se.

That seems to be the opposite of the ruling 2 posts up.
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Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:23 am

If you are occupying then you're in the houses and sheltered areas. British didn't sit around in the cold during revolutionary war. They were in the houses.

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