War, Leadership Units

User avatar
YK - Yuri Khavlor
King
Posts: 648
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:58 am

DM Juan wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:50 am
Just a note though, unofficial state X grants the defection effect. Though that is apparently pointless, since you can bypass it by hiring an external force to attack your state faith anyway...
I always thought the defection should affecting the troops, regardless of who gives the orders. You should be at least as likely to fight to defend your state's institutions against orders being given by a mercenary as by a tyrant themselves.

I understand that Birmail does not track the recruited province for units, but could state x defection be based on who pays the maintenance rather than who holds the flag?

This way a regent could hire mercenaries to war on a State X, and not lose them because they convert religion the moment they take up a new flag.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"

User avatar
BS - Torpor
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:08 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by BS - Torpor » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:02 am

Well, its still easier to look the other way then to do the deed yourself so it makes sense.

But loyal troops present in the province perhaps should have an easier roll anyway? Or perhaps a chance of spontaneous levies rising?
Tor'por
"When I was a fighting-man, the kettle-drums they beat,
The people scattered gold-dust before my horses feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track,
With poison in my wine cup, and daggers at my back."
- Robert E. Howard

User avatar
DM Juan
Site Admin
Posts: 3245
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:05 am

It actually does track muster point. And I agree, it should matter more where the army came from than who happens to lead it.

User avatar
MS - Meaghan Smith
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by MS - Meaghan Smith » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:11 am

That would have been nice last turn in Graven -- Mercenaries and Undead for the win!
Meaghan 'the Smith'

Baroness-Elector of Graven, Countess of Gravendale, Merchant-Princess of the Graven Trading Federated Order

"What has been built cannot be destroyed, save by those without vision, heart, or inspiration."

User avatar
CI - Charrek Ironfist
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:25 am

DM Juan wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:50 am
Just a note though, unofficial state X grants the defection effect. Though that is apparently pointless, since you can bypass it by hiring an external force to attack your state faith anyway...
I preferred the free fortification from Taelshore.
Lord Mayor Charrek Ironfist | Charrek.Ironfist@mail.com
Stormpriestess Khalia Ironfist

User avatar
TH - The Hunt
Emperor
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by TH - The Hunt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 am

It doesn't make much sense for a majority faith to be harder for invaders to crush than a minority one, except due to the size and strength difference. There are disadvantages inherent in hiring someone else to occupy your territory... like, them being able to say it's their territory now.
"The Hunt rides. The Hunt protects."

User avatar
MS - Meaghan Smith
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by MS - Meaghan Smith » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 am

?

That's like saying, "It doesn't make much sense for a majority of Army-trained citizens to be harder for invaders to crush than a minority one, except due to the size and strength difference."

Clear difference - resources, access, almost every facet would.be impacted.
Meaghan 'the Smith'

Baroness-Elector of Graven, Countess of Gravendale, Merchant-Princess of the Graven Trading Federated Order

"What has been built cannot be destroyed, save by those without vision, heart, or inspiration."

User avatar
DM Juan
Site Admin
Posts: 3245
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by DM Juan » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:47 am

The fortification was possibly better... will have to evaluate it.
Or contemplate the issue of bypassing it completely being trivially easy.

User avatar
MS - Meaghan Smith
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by MS - Meaghan Smith » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:50 am

The fortification works well. Makes an occupation potentially have to last longer and makes someone choose even more so between occupation vs pillage.
Meaghan 'the Smith'

Baroness-Elector of Graven, Countess of Gravendale, Merchant-Princess of the Graven Trading Federated Order

"What has been built cannot be destroyed, save by those without vision, heart, or inspiration."

User avatar
TH - The Hunt
Emperor
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: War, Leadership Units

Post by TH - The Hunt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:59 am

RS - Rogr Smith wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 am
That's like saying, "It doesn't make much sense for a majority of Army-trained citizens to be harder for invaders to crush than a minority one, except due to the size and strength difference."
No, because filling 20 out of 30 temple slots in a realm doesn't make a temple any more of 'an army' than having 10 out of 30.

Giving the majority faith a free fortification has several negative consequences. For one, it means they don't need to have fortifications unless they enough lose holding levels to cease being the majority faith, in which case they suddenly and inexplicably lose their fortifications. There's a lot of ways this could be gamed, like by adding new provinces that don't have the faith so that the faith's status changes, or destroying the temples in some provinces so the temples in others will lose their defenses 'sympathetically', or ceding temple-less provinces to have the remaining temples become fortified.

On the other side, it means free temple fortifications will be very common, slowing down invasions in general, but only in some situations. It also means even armies that don't care about the native religion will have difficulty removing it... but only if and while it remains the majority faith. From history, it seems like minority religions are just as hard to stamp out as majority ones.
"The Hunt rides. The Hunt protects."

Post Reply