War, Leadership Units

[TH - The Hunt]

There's arguments for both sides, since the people in occupied provinces are still hostile (in general sense) toward the occupiers and are making life difficult for them. The question is whether it's better for the game if late autumn is the best time to begin an occupation (because winter will make it nigh on impossible for anyone else to break) or the worst time to do it (because winter attrition will be suffered by the occupiers).

[MS - Meaghan Smith]

I'd recommend breaking it up clearly what falls under occupation and what does not.

1) Movement:
-A) Ships can move their movement-rate provinces per War Move; loading/moving/unloading takes at least 1 full war move (within movement-rate provinces).
-B) Movement takes up the War Move(s) involved. Movement is limited by unit movement rate compared to terrain. Therefore, eg: A unit with Move 2 takes 2 war moves to reach a Heavy Forest province; battle would take place in War Move 3. Crossing a River takes up a full war move. Roads reduce all movement costs to 1.
2) Battle (1 war move = 3 rounds of battle); battle starts during the movement in which it is initiated. Battles use up any movement left during the war moves in which they take place.
2A) All hits taken by units stick with the army until end of turn (this is also already a rule, but to reinforce it's existence).
2B) Each War Move IN A PARTICULAR province requires a PC/LT having used a Declare War (you can have 1 war leader simultaneously occupy 7 provinces, but not simultaneously occupy and pillage the same province).
2C) You cannot undertake the same War Move in the same province, at the same time (ie, you cannot have 2 armies pillage a province at the same time, but you could have 1 province-level army pillage a province, and another province-level army drive down sources simultaneously).
3) Occupation takes 3 war moves (1 Action) to complete; this takes up all the war moves involved
4) You may Pillage once per 3 war moves (taking up all 3 war moves to do).
4A) Each level of Castle protects a level of the province from Pillaging.
5) You cannot disrupt occupation or pillaging attempts by starting battles. Once someone defeats the defenders the first time, and commences occupation, you can only dislodge it by dislodging the invaders (that is, if they start occupation in action 1, war move 3, and you fight them in action 2 war moves 1 and 2, but they are still there with province_level units, they will have successfully occupied the province) - occupation of holdings can occur simultaneously as occupation of the province.
6) Besiege Castle @ 1 level per turn - automatically occurring after first use of action, unless # of troops falls below castle level.
7) Assault Castle via Siegecraft NWP or Artillery-type Unit - reduces castle @ 1 per action [ie, per 3 war moves].

These Actions can oy be performed after Occupation is completed (can be performed concurrent to completion with enough units and command elements).
1) Destroy Building [Castle levels above province/holding level may protect 1 building per level of overage] - requires the province to be occupied or besieged before this can be done.
2) Drive down source level by 1 (this requires province owner to point out or a participating leadership unit to have a source (any level) in the province.
3) Drive Down holding (any non-source) to 0 - this first requires the holding/province to be occupied.
4) Destroy Holding (any non-source) that is at 0 in a province you own. You must first occupy the province. You cannot destroy holdings in a foreign realm (see p66-67 of rulebook)

[TH - The Hunt]

Hmm. As I understand it, Declare War is prohibited in winter (unless it's a weak winter), even if the target is your own provinces. If that's the case, it'd be odd for this rule to apply if there's no risk of attrition. Maybe occupying a province, itself, causes attrition to apply, regardless of who owns the province. An army besieging a holding fort in winter would also suffer attrition, then, even if the besieger owns the province.

[WM - The Waste Mage]

Well most important thing is not to change or implement any new stuff until after any current wars are settled. Not really fair to have someone plan a war with the rules one way and then have reality change in the middle of the war.

[MS - Meaghan Smith]

Who said there is no risk to attrition?

[TH - The Hunt]

Yes. I've been assuming that winter is a bad time for occupiers the whole way through so far. If there's other players who thought getting to winter meant a province-level occupying force was home free, then there's been a lack of clarity.

[MS - Meaghan Smith]

I don't think most have thought that.

[AaH - Avicerra al Hamam]

It never ocured to me that you could think that as an occupier you could avoid attrition. You are not just sitting in your home defending you are activly pillaging and destroying holdings. If you do that in the winter you should have attrition.

[DM Juan]

These Actions can oy be performed after Occupation is completed (can be performed concurrent to completion with enough units and command elements).
1) Destroy Building [Castle levels above province/holding level may protect 1 building per level of overage] - requires the province to be occupied or besieged before this can be done.
2) Drive down source level by 1 (this requires province owner to point out or a participating leadership unit to have a source (any level) in the province. you can drive a Source 0 out of existence.
3) Drive Down holding (any non-source) to 0 - this first requires the holding/province to be occupied.
4) Destroy Holding (any non-source) that is at 0 in a province you own. You must first occupy the province. You cannot destroy holdings in a foreign realm (see p66-67 of rulebook)
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They cannot be performed concurrent to the occupation, but could be done concurrently to each other after the occupation completes (except possibly 3 and 4, which kind of don't make sense necessarily as concurrent, though I could see #4 actually just being the effect of #3 if the province owner is the occupier)

[JB - Jana Boulderbrew]

I think it is a question of resistance burning their homes or poisoning food/water.

My wonder is what if you have a holding in the province? Does that could or only the owner... Fortified holding should count.