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Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:12 pm
by TH - The Hunt
Medieval shipboard cannons were used the same way as other medieval artillery, they were strapped on top of the deck and swiveled about. So they weren't all that effective. Mounting broadside cannons transformed naval warfare but required a total redesign of all the ships in question. Galleons couldn't mount many cannons, so despite their huge size, even if they had as many cannons as could fit on them, they were helplessly outgunned by much smaller military vessels.

I think 'gunpowder ships' would be distinct just like gunpowder units are, and could have similar limitations on creation.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:23 pm
by DM Juan
Forest(Charcoal kiln supplies charcoal),
Plains(Evaporation vat supplies saltpeter),
Hills(Quarry supplies sulphur),
Low mtns(Mine supplies lead),
High Mtns(Mine supplies steel).

Basic Steam Engine: +1 Move, 2GB to retrofit a ship (no reduction for NWP, build action required, ship out of commission while being worked on). High Mountains, Forest. Required for Further upgrades. 1 unit Charcoal/Turn to maintain ship.

Cannon Upgrade: +1 Missile, Low Mountains, High Mountains. 1GB to refit ship. 1 unit Lead/Turn to maintain ship.
Ammunition Upgrade: +1 Missile, Low Mountains, Forest. 1GB to refit ship. 1 unit Lead/Turn to maintain ship (Requires the Cannon Upgrade, and it's maintenance to be applied)

Armored Hull: +1 Defence, 1GB to refit ship. High Mountains, Plains. 1 unit Steel/Turn.

Upgraded Engine: +1 Move, Plains, Hills. 1GB retrofit. 1 unit Sulphur/Turn (basic Engine maintenance, and additional still required, first).

Others TBD?

Some random thoughts I have currently put down. Mostly, looking to contemplate most pairing of resources doing something, with a resource/turn required to maintain the ship with the upgrade.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:14 pm
by BB - Bronzebeard
Since standard upgrades via normal tech tree give +1 to the various upgrades with no resource maintenance, I would think these should give a better bonus, say +2.

Having chains, like Basic Steam Engines/Upgraded Engines or Cannon upgrade/Ammo upgrade seems fine, but I don't like requiring the Basic Steam engine to get the other chains. Most sailing ships got better cannons or ammo without a steam engine. And the iron-clad line of ships didn't have steam engines. Historically, gunpowder and cannon improvements came before steam engines.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:49 pm
by TH - The Hunt
Right, unless these are steam cannons, there's no connection.

I'd prefer to see gunpowder ships have separate statblocks, just as musketeers do. Sloop, frigate, man o' war, ironclad, etc.. It doesn't make sense to be able to upgrade a fast sailing ship into an even faster ship with an engine; the systems are redundant. Same story for adding cannons in place of traditional weapons. (Maybe the engine adds versatility, though. Historically there were ships that had engines which could be used when there was no wind, but which were too inefficient to run for very long.)

It should be more effective to armour a ship if it has an engine instead of sails, so that gives another way to implement synergy between those systems. Though, I don't think we should underestimate how hard it is to acquire that much metal. Even if each province is only being able to support one armoured ship, that's generous. Perhaps it takes resources from multiple provinces to build each ship, but only one per ship to maintain.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:11 pm
by DM Juan
Yeah, it doesn't need to be linked. Those are just descriptive wordings though, focus less on the "need" for steam-powered ships to power cannon ships.

The upgrades require multiple provinces, and require upkeep from resources. The bonuses, don't forget, are stacked on top of normal ship upgrades. So they are "more expensive" but they are also above normal ships.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:26 pm
by WB - Water's Blessing
One suggestion is that the weight of heavier cannons or especially metal plating might slow down ships.

Re: Ships/Prov Requirements

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:24 am
by DM Juan
I considered that as well, +2 X, -1 Y boosts
Engine +2 move, - 1unit capacity or something
Upgraded cannons, +2 missile, -1 move... Etc