Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

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CI - Charrek Ironfist
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Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:25 pm

It bogged down last game when everyone wanted a guild 1 to get the nice bless land action.

This game there's people swapping domains left and right.

I suggest we follow the rule laid out in the campaign setting, page 57.
Investing say 22 levels of temples costs 1GB and 22RP

So, any kind of swap x for x is more costly.

I'm also skeptical that priests of Zilchus would be willing to go along and become Priests of Haelyn just because someone who was never their leader for more then a day decided that was new plan. Although that was a unique situation, in that they were all or mostly potentially misled about their deity.

Lastly, guilds are often treated as more fungible. Maybe guilds could be tranferred for 1RP/holding instead of 1RP/level. If you did it that way, you could say temples should be 2RP/level if its to a temple with deity of incompatible alignment. So Cuiraecen to Nesirie is 1RP/level, Cuiraecen to Belinik is 2RP/level.
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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:42 pm

I agree that there could be an increased cost for investiture and swapping. It should not be economical to transfer domains to take advantage of short term gains from using another regents excess actions.

Regarding priests, I don't like when temple are restricted from transfer of holdings. Temples should be Pantheistic anyways. Also I see Birthright as more of the Political side of religion, back in medieval times when nobles became Bishops without being part of the clergy etc. Largely a secular and semi-corrupting system, that is disrupted when a true believer gets into a position of power.

The Fungible nature of guilds was represented by the fact that their investiture did not require a Investiture ceremony.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
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DM Juan
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by DM Juan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:08 pm

I agree that we need to address this. Obviously not mid-turn, but perhaps as a tentative phase in.

Say something like:

Turn 20, investing holdings (non-heir, non-death, retirement is a corner case that would be allowed as well, within reason not designed to abuse/avoid the below):
Costs: 1RP per holding invested.

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DM Juan
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by DM Juan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:08 pm

Future games, we probably move more towards 1RP per level of holding.

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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:23 pm

It was in the core rules that if a regent died, they could never rule the same Domain again if resurrected. It may fit thematically to increase the cost of reacquiring a domain multiple times, and must succeed an increasingly difficult check or else 'the land' may choose another leader.

'divine right to rule' is an important concept being represented in the setting. If rulership is too transactional and easily transfered, it become less about right to rule and more about property ownership.

At the end of the day it may come down to roleplaying enforcement more than a mechanical one.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
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CI - Charrek Ironfist
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:27 pm

I don't think it was written as a rule, simply that at death you lost your bloodline and someone else became regent. Its presumably hard to get your domain back under those circumstances.
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:15 pm

LA - Leira Annu wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:27 pm
I don't think it was written as a rule, simply that at death you lost your bloodline and someone else became regent. Its presumably hard to get your domain back under those circumstances.
Book of Priest Craft p 83

Regent Death and Resurrection

..., he can never be invested as the ruler of his former domain again, since the land will refuse him. The resurrected character could possibly win a new domain elsewhere in Cerilia, since he retains his bloodline (unless he willingly gave it away by designating it before his death)...
YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:21 pm

Makes sense to me that giving away your holdings is a way to save actions... but it doesn't seem wise. The penalty for breaking a vassalage contract doesn't increase with the size of the grant, so if it's worth their time to accept the holdings 'temporarily', it's probably worth the price of reneging on the deal, too.
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CI - Charrek Ironfist
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:42 pm

BSB - Blue Skull Barons wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:15 pm
LA - Leira Annu wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:27 pm
I don't think it was written as a rule, simply that at death you lost your bloodline and someone else became regent. Its presumably hard to get your domain back under those circumstances.
Book of Priest Craft p 83

Regent Death and Resurrection

..., he can never be invested as the ruler of his former domain again, since the land will refuse him. The resurrected character could possibly win a new domain elsewhere in Cerilia, since he retains his bloodline (unless he willingly gave it away by designating it before his death)...
I may have only "skimmed" the expansion books. That's interesting. How do you retain your bloodline? Doesn't your heir get it?
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CSF - Flint
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Re: Frequent Investitures/Holding Swapping

Post by CSF - Flint » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:46 pm

Maybe if you die with no heir designated?
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