Fortify

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HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr
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Re: Fortify

Post by HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 am

If all builds take a domain action - and that domain action allows you to build up to Court level things - be careful. It is an action-tax on smaller domains. If I have a Court 10 I am even further ahead in action economy than the Court 4 person with it requiring an Action to build.
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DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas
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Re: Fortify

Post by DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:06 am

Not too sure it requires a fix, really. The alternative looks to me quite terrible.
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TPK - The Pirates
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Re: Fortify

Post by TPK - The Pirates » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:12 am

If builds require an action, court has to be revised and no longer have builds tied to it (for Hansa's point). It's a bad fix with extensive second and third-order effects.

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WB - Water's Blessing
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Re: Fortify

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:59 am

Oh, yeah. It wouldn't be tied to court -- definitely tied to NWPs in the same way that army training is tied to WPs. Court would mostly be just for setting your effective range of action.

As now written, everyone has more or less the same level of efficiency at building things. NWPs can accelerate things a bit (engineering + specific building NWP), but pretty much anyone can potentially build anything well enough. Breaking it up, sinking it into actions, and tying it to NWPs would be entirely about making build less efficient, making characters less efficient, making growth more time consuming, and making LTs more useful as domain aids rather than just adventure-bots (because, if you have to use an action anyway, build-focused LTs become a lot more valuable). I'd be particularly inclined to do this with ships, which are important military assets as well as key tools for the game's economy. At the very least, I'd strip build actions of their ability to generate exps in the current system.

Whether it's a bad fix or not, that depends on your goals I suppose.
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TPK - The Pirates
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Re: Fortify

Post by TPK - The Pirates » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:02 am

Doesn't training of troops give XP? Why remove XP from shipbuilding then. Each is essentially doing the same thing.

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WB - Water's Blessing
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Re: Fortify

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:04 am

Ships can be built with a free action and require no skills to build top tier ships. If you could muster straight to heavy infantry as a free action and required no particular set of skills to do so, then it would be comparable.
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Re: Fortify

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:14 am

That said, I think what Juan seems to be doing this game -- taking shipyards out of the game for now and tying it to in-game events -- is fine too. Making ships a plot-point and keep everyone at longships is an interesting way to do it. Still shouldn't get exps for it, though, unless you have to burn actions for it.

I'm also not thinking we should necessarily do it now -- game's started rolling and all. But I do think it would be an interesting thing to think about for the next iteration (unless it's a land-locked game like Zedfrost).
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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Fortify

Post by TH - The Hunt » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:27 am

I'm already uncomfortable with large, wealthy domains being able to gain XP faster than small and poor domains, especially from actions like Train Units and Bless Land, that don't even represent personal accomplishments. It's not an advantage they need... more like the opposite... and it doesn't make much sense. Yeah, the guy with the larger realm might get more gray hairs, but he's not facing more difficult challenges, really. Just more pressure to perform.

I think sticking with only fortify being a domain action makes sense, since it's the only type of construction that creates a huge action sink for other players.
Last edited by TH - The Hunt on Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas
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Re: Fortify

Post by DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:16 am

Building Ships grants px I think, as all building does.
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Re: Fortify

Post by TPK - The Pirates » Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:21 pm

AB - Avan Boeruine wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:04 am
Ships can be built with a free action and require no skills to build top tier ships. If you could muster straight to heavy infantry as a free action and required no particular set of skills to do so, then it would be comparable.
Ships that make real XP are tied to province level. Level 3 province can make 1 per turn. Not exactly game-breaking, particularly when factored against a dedicated trainer who can crank out multiple units per action with funding.

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