Kn Rule Feedback

[CSF - Flint]

Bless land and pop growth are wanted by all. There needs to be a counter set of realm spells that make religions that do not have these palatable.

I agree those two spells present a very difficult design space. This is a problem that has to be tackled systemically. If players are given the option, they will always choose to select them, since its a significant advantage over players who do not. Economy of the game seems to revolve around bless/pop growth/gold rush. Adding more tools just means those tools will be used in addition to those that exist.

I think thats the problem with a 'skills and powers' type system, it can be a great DM tool, but put it into the players' hands and like water flowing the path of least resistance, you will just end up with powergamey broken stuff.

From a community perspective we would like to see a balanced pantheon with many flavourful and equally powerful options without being homogenous. From any individual perspective however, they want to cram as much power and custom spells/abilities in as they can get away with to maximize their own personal agency. Presents an interesting conflict of interests for us to resolve.

[WM - The Waste Mage]

Would need to create new spells or bonuses for religions that do t take those spells. Like adding in random refugees that only are attracted to evil or good and will add a settler or a large rule bonus. Pop growth and bless land should logically only be allowed to good and some neutral alignments. But the evil religions need something on par that has to do with conquering or force. We can’t achieve what is being asked with what we have now. Would need more variety added so each alignment would be appealing depending on play style. I mean how many civilized goblin and gnoll realms have we had? Should instead be evil little fucks bent on ravaging and taking what they want.

[TH - The Hunt]

If the solution isn't 'allow every faith access to all realm magic of the All sphere', another one could be to reward religions that make the game world more fun and interesting with better breaks and further development, while depriving the ones that are designed to be as mechanically powerful as possible.

[CSF - Flint]

Or we could approach it from the opposite angle. We could change the rule province action to make pop growth less mandatory.

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

Similarly, I would like to see rule province less restricted for provinces that have been levied, plagued, or pillaged. Perhaps permit them to be ruled in Spring or Autumn to restore lost levels, only.

[TH - The Hunt]

While I understand how it's gotten misplaced since we keep running games where the land starts out unsettled, ruling up provinces isn't supposed to be a central part of the game... It's more a way you can shake things up if there's a long stalemate, or burn your actions and resources if you've got nothing better to do. The main beneficiary of the effort being whoever inherits or conquers the province later.

It's hard to set that up when we're in the middle of setting up realms. But, it's not that hard to grow a realm without the Pop Growth spell, either... the spell is mostly important for small realms on good terrain that want to build 'tall'. (With more than one regent working together to do it.)

[TH - The Hunt]

Another idea: Instead of every faith being free to pick every realm spell every time they rank up, the pool of spells could be limited, so that only one faith can have each realm spell until every realm spell belongs to at least one faith.

After that, a second round could begin, so someone who wanted a spell for their faith but wasn't able to get it on the first round could help every faith grow until all (eighteen) spells have been picked and the pool gets refreshed... or they could just steal the relic that empowers the faith they envy.

It'd be a three-for-one: Generates conflict, limits the scope by reducing the average power of domains, and enhances the thematic uniqueness of each faith. The lucky faiths that get access to the most coveted spells wouldn't have both of them.

If the way this works is not that the first player to reach faith rank 1 gets to pick any spell they want, then it might be possible to separate the most powerful spells from the most aggressive religions, too. On the other hand, if the most popular spells are Bless Land and Population Growth, the faiths that get those might not be in sterling condition for resisting the second-most aggressive faiths, those have access to spells with more direct application.

[HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr]

Rule Province

DC: 5 + (2x Current Province Level) + (2x Movement Cost)

Human Plains - 2 NWP applied
Odds of Success:
DC: 7 + 2(Current_Prov)

1->2 = 9+
Fail 1-8

Population Growth - Bid 2 (as same price comparison)
vs 2x Attempt to Rule 1->2

DC9 - if fail: DC7

PopGrowth DC7

2->3
DC 11 and DC9... 20% Chance of no success

Pop Growth - Bid 3
DC8... 35% of no success

3->4
DC 13 and DC 11... 30% chance of no success

Pop Growth bid 4
DC9+ ... 40% chance of no success

4->5
DC 15 and DC 13 ... 42% chance of no success

Bid 5...
DC 10+ ... 45% chance of no success


For the same cost - it is generally better to attempt 2x Rule Provinces.
Obviously Population Growth is more action-efficient when 1) the Priest has no provinces and 2) they are overbidding the relative cost of trying the Rule Province action twice. There is also the argument of the Auto-Success Rule Temple tacked onto the Population Growth making it a reasonably cost-effective action.

Fundamentally I think in the standard setting people grossly underestimated how powerful rule-province was. It increases income pretty significantly and it increases trade income dramatically. I think you have it backwards - if you can province rule - it is almost always the right/efficient action to take. No matter the setting status.

Original Population Growth was completely broken. It allowed multiple Rules in a very condensed timeframe.

[DM Juan]

Could also remove the Temple-growth from the spell, making it less of a no-brainer for a Priest to be willing to cast it. At least, to cast it on the cheap.

[DM Juan]

I have updated/upgraded a few realm spells on the Priest side, to make the more desirable. Since the way the faith-set up works severely limits the # of Divine spells, they need to be more balanced between themselves as to their power level.



I actually don't disagree with the idea of limiting each spell to 2-3 faiths. You have to be strategic on which spells you take, and when, and forces faiths to not all be copies of each other.