Birthright: Chimaeron

I don't think any covert action should be possible, the god should be aware of what their priests are doing, and able to punish them for it directly through the divine connection the priest has worked so hard to build. Unless the priest has the forethought to sever it, despite the personal cost.

Investiture only slows metagame swapping as an action tax.

The other likely use is a peace treaty condition.

Yes. You effectively need to buy your way out of the faith, plus an action tax. Or via war/surrender, it becomes possible that you are forced to let a priest out quicker.

MF - Morcuan the Fay wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:05 pm

I just think it's important to impress the degree of power the god has over their priests is such that a betrayal is almost impossible to survive without the consent of the god being abandoned. And even then, they could opt to punish the priest 'lightly' by changing their character class, so they still can't join a new religion as a priest. I don't like the idea of devotion being taken lightly.

I think that might work for a full god, but I don't think the god-lings that we have now should be able to pull that kind of thing off. Until they ascend, they shouldn't have access to the full divine portfolio of employee management.

MF - Morcuan the Fay wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:24 pm

I don't think any covert action should be possible, the god should be aware of what their priests are doing, and able to punish them for it directly through the divine connection the priest has worked so hard to build. Unless the priest has the forethought to sever it, despite the personal cost.

It has been shown in basically all D&D campaign settings that the 'Gods' are not omniscient. This goes for omniscience on their followers intentions as well, as many of whom have frequently betrayed or usurped the 'Gods' in many of the systems and settings (Planescape and Epic Handbook and Book of Vile Darkness all had portions on this).

There's a big gap between 'omniscient' and 'as ignorant as any mortal'. In 'basically all D&D settings' the gods have superhuman senses and awareness of things relating to their own temples, followers, and divine portfolio. While that doesn't extend to mind-reading, it clearly does extend to awareness of their priests actions, not just including how they wield their god's power but also what they wear, how they fight, and even what they say. If their god expects them to 'keep off they grass', they'd better do it...

I think it's worth considering that in the past, we've been pretty permissive with selling temple holdings between faiths via investiture, and this isn't that different. Not saying this in defense of the status quo - just something to think about in connection with the current issue.

When a temple domain recognizes a new regent, whether for all or just part of it, that doesn't necessarily (and by default, shouldn't) mean the temples or their followers convert or switch faiths. It means those temples and their priests are now subservient to a new regent, one whom they may not agree with but are obligated to serve. They can still rebel, of course. A temple regent can theoretically have dozens of faiths in their domain (just like a guild regent can have dozens of distinct guilds, or a law regent have dozens of feuding vassals, instead of a single entity), though they'll still only be able to cast the spells their own god grants them. Their priests don't have to have the same god. That includes blooded priest lieutenants, who can cast spells their regent can't.

One way to think of it is that the Investiture recognizes the old god as subordinate to the new god, at least for those worshippers. That allows everyone to continue their personal religious practices without too much cognitive dissonance.

"The Gods hold your Sway"
You must wait Tier-turns of your current faith, before you can re-dedicate your Shrines/Temples to a new faith. During this time, you provide no support to any God.
If both parties (the current God, and the leaving Shrine/Temple-holder) do an Investiture Action, they may sever the connection immediately."

"Make em have to "build" their shrine into a new faith. The Old Faith is alerted to the fact and can Excommunicate them with effects lasting until the regent has completely rebuilt his current shrine. Or some bastardization of that."


I´d suggest both time and rebuild really. the tier turns for realm spells and temples levels counting for the new, the shrine to make it cost something other than time.

The Gods are new and weak and derive their power from their faithful. Until we have faiths actually established with actual miracles being cast, I think joining and leaving should be very flexible. These new faiths aren't as sacred as the old ones were...yet.