[D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

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CSF - Flint
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[D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by CSF - Flint » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:15 am

Brainstorming pop growth variants -


"Wide Theme"

Req temple 1
Affects number of provinces = 1/2 caster level
Cost 2gb 2rp per province

Add temple level in favour of rule provinces this season

Balance thoughts:
+One action can increase the rolls on multiple rule actions
-No Free Temple
-Bonus will be smaller on a per province basis


"Evil Theme"

Req temple 1
Cost = province level in GB and RP +1
Guarantee success on next rule province action
When ruled, province loyalty drops an additional step

+No roll required
-no free temple
-extra loyalty hit

"Diversity Theme"

Req Temple 1
Affects number of provinces = 1/2 caster level
Cost = 1GB 1RP per province
Treat rule attempt DC's in tagetted provinces as thought they were move = 2 this season.

+Helps realms with multiple terrain types outside of their racial favourites
+Affects multiple rolls
-no free temple
-maybe flavour concerns if we really want to keep those dirty dwarves in the mountains where they belong

"Arcane Theme"

Req Temple 1
Cost = 2RP per province level
Source holdings may be bid in favour of rule province action in targetted province this season. Should the population grow, Source potential is not decreased.

+Removes tension between growth and wizards
-Removes tension between growth and wizards
-Existing sentiment about this mechanic being unbalanced, mitigated by spell/action gate maybe ok?
-no free temple

Edit - Added:

"Frontier Theme"
Req Temple 1
Cost 1GB 1RP
Reduce the settler cost of your next settle action in an adjacent province by 1 (minimum 0)

+Helps grow wide and fast
+cheap, reducing key resource requirements
-ineffective after Province level 2
-no free temple
Last edited by CSF - Flint on Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Captain Shanol Flint

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by CSF - Flint » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:19 am

DM Juan wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:52 am
Bless: Universal
All Others (including Improved Bless): a maximum of 5 faiths can take the spell.

A concept that forces faiths to consider carefully when they take spells, and also creates complimentary faiths, since some faiths may be Population Growth based, whereas others are Improved Bless based, or whatever else.
------------------------------------
Is there a lot of concern that this will result in penalized faiths who don't "grow fast"?

I am also looking at variant versions of Population Growth, that will count as Pop-Growth for the above limitations.

No one has any Realm Spells yet, so if we are making changes we should do it now.
Spells Already Altered:
DM Juan wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:38 am
Bless Army, Bless Holding, Holy War, True Believer.
[+] Holy War Change
DM Juan wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:01 am
Sphere: War
4th-level caster
Regency: Equal to GB cost
Gold: Muster+Train Cost
Required Holding: 3
Duration: 1 domain turn, +1 action/3 levels
The realm spell holy war allows a priest to muster already trained troops. You can muster up to half your level in units, and may spend 2x your level in Training Points to upgrade them. The army costs what they normally would have to muster and train up, plus 1RP per unit. After the duration of the spell, the units return home (are disbanded). They can be used immediately for both defensive and offensive wars.


Examples:

Level 10
Max 5 Units
20 Train Points

5 Levies -> Irregulars = 5 TP
5 Irregs -> Infantry = 10 TP
1 Infantry -> Medium Infantry = 4 TP

So you could muster-summon 1 Medium Infantry and 4 Infantry at level 10.
Compared to Summoning:

---

Summoning
(Conjuration/Summoning)
Duration: 1 Turn + 1 Action/level
You gain 2 summoning points per caster-level; each Gnoll Irregular = 3 points, each Orog Infantry = 5 points, each Stonecrown Ogre = 8 points
Cost:
1RP per 2 summon points, plus 1RP per 2 units (2 Stonecrown = 16pts, and 2 units == 9RP; 6 Irregulars = 18pts, and 6 units == 14RP)
1GB per 4 summon points, plus 1GB per 2 units (2 Stonecrown = 16pts, and 2 units == 5GB; 6 Irregulars = 18pts, and 6 units == 8GB)

(Though I will probably revert it, but haven't updated it yet)

Level 10 = 20 Points
4 Orog Infantry
The summoned units are cheaper, but you get slightly less of them.

That seems relatively balanced
---
Summoning
(Conjuration/Summoning)
Regency: 4RP/unit
Gold: 2GB/unit
Duration: 1 Turn + 1 Action/level
Using a powerful summoning spell, a wizard creates an army to do his bidding. At third level, a Wizard can summon 2x Gnollish Irregulars, at sixth level she could summon 2x Orog Infantry or Archers, or 4 Gnollish Irregulars, and at 9th: 2 Stonecrown Ogres, or 4 Orogs, or 6 Gnolls. At 12th, 4 Stonecrown Ogres, 6 Orogs, or 8 Gnolls.The army is available to defend where they are summoned the action they are summoned, but cannot move until the following action.

Old summoning.
10th level would also net you 4 Orog Infantry.
Last edited by CSF - Flint on Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 am

I like the alternative Diversity. It makes the establishing of large provinces more difficult than today and the priest does not get the bonus of the free temple. But more provinces can be targeted.

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CSF - Flint
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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by CSF - Flint » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:33 am

Added Frontier Theme Idea
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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:35 am

It would mean that population growth favours your none favorite terrains resulting in more conflict across the map. Now there is no reason for a human to settle in a HM or a Karamhul in the Forest.

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by RaH - Rassan al Hamam » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:12 pm

I don't like any changes mid round.

-Changing the movement cost changes the racial balance.
-Being able to cast it on more then 1 province makes it to good.
-Guaranteed success makes it to easy to rule high movement provinces.

Any change would be good for some and bad for others for a range of reasons.

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:20 pm

Well we have made a huge change mid round. This would just make the change different.

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by DM Juan » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:30 pm

"Wide Theme"

Req temple 1
Affects number of provinces = 1/2 caster level
Cost 2gb 2rp per province

Add temple level in favour of rule provinces this season
--------------------------------------------------------
This isn't a terrible idea, either.


Impact 2 Provinces per Casting, but can only give half your level (rounded down) to each province impacted.
impact 2 Characters per Casting, only give half-level bonus (rounded down) in province of their choice, in which you have a Temple. You may not target the same PC more than once per Summer.

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:36 pm

The wide theme I like it would help the action economy of a priest and not be overpowered at the same time. Bonus is spread around more evenly.

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Re: [D4] Priest Spells and Balance Discussion

Post by DM Juan » Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:36 pm

Wide might need to add a different amount.

Standard
1 Province = Level

2 Province = 1/2 Level

1/2 Level = +2 per Province, to be on the same balance rate, and cost assessment (2/2 per target province)

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