Undefined how to bid - Subversion

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RaH - Rassan al Hamam
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by RaH - Rassan al Hamam » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:39 pm

MD - Mishrak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:37 pm
If someone leaves a large army under the command of a lieutenant (lieutenant action led war) - it is a devastating spell to use.


I don't think you can control an army by controling the LT.
It has a cost for units.

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WB - Water's Blessing
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:40 pm

I like the idea of the person defending from the defection having to match the cost of the spell before the bidding war begins -- sort of like how BM proposes. Wizard casts the spell, targeting 5 units and spending X RP. Defender spends Y RP, which is the cost of 3 of the units. The two that aren't bid against are defected. At that point, the wizard decides if they want the other three or not. If they do, then both sides do a secret bid as per #1. If they don't, then the other 3 aren't defected.

EDIT: We're talking about subversion -- but I think the basic point is the same. The defender should have to match the ante of the caster before bidding is allowed. Since it does cost the caster an action but not the defender, it seems sporting to at least require that BEFORE any bidding is considered.
Last edited by WB - Water's Blessing on Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:41 pm

MD - Mishrak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:37 pm
If someone leaves a large army under the command of a lieutenant (lieutenant action led war) - it is a devastating spell to use.
I think that may be (rightfully) disallowed, without spending the cost to include the units as well.

I am told you cannot give a disband order to a unit. This leads me to believe I cannot subvert a LT to commit suicide by failed assassination.
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HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:49 pm

I was thinking you subvert the lieutenant to lead the army somewhere else. They are in command of the army - it seems a reasonable action they can take within the rules. But maybe not.
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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:53 pm

On potential uses:
Subvert a shrine to dedicate itself to another god?
Subvert a LT to grant you X GB from the realms treasury?

Does a player know the Orders they are bidding against?
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JB - Jana Boulderbrew
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by JB - Jana Boulderbrew » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 pm

Does the caster know the level of the lieutenant?
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:56 pm

AB - Alim Büyücü wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:40 pm
I like the idea of the person defending from the defection having to match the cost of the spell before the bidding war begins -- sort of like how BM proposes. Wizard casts the spell, targeting 5 units and spending X RP. Defender spends Y RP, which is the cost of 3 of the units. The two that aren't bid against are defected. At that point, the wizard decides if they want the other three or not. If they do, then both sides do a secret bid as per #1. If they don't, then the other 3 aren't defected.

EDIT: We're talking about subversion -- but I think the basic point is the same. The defender should have to match the ante of the caster before bidding is allowed. Since it does cost the caster an action but not the defender, it seems sporting to at least require that BEFORE any bidding is considered.
I vote for this.

Phase One: Caster casts Spell with a public amount of RP. Defender counter bids with a public amount of RP. As long as the defender bid something it goes to phase two. If he bids nothing the spell is fully effective. If he spends something though:

Phase Two: Each secretly decide and tell DM what they are spending for 1 time bid in phase two.

Neither can really game it to sap RP from the other without spending a good amount themselves. The initial phase shows that the Caster is spending a set amount and the counter shows that the defender is spending a set amount or he may be playing it sly to spend a lot in phase two. The caster has to wonder if the defender is out of RP or is playing sly.

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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:59 pm

But most importantly DECIDE THIS QUICKLY! It is taking away from the drama and gravitas of my last stand news post.

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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:04 pm

Ma - Mag wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:55 pm
Does the caster know the level of the lieutenant?
The caster must spend 3rp per level of the LT. So if they didn't know ahead of time, they know how much they are spending. Not the best alternative to scry, but there is that.
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DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas
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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Post by DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:21 pm

BM - Brucal von Mauler wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:59 pm
But most importantly DECIDE THIS QUICKLY! It is taking away from the drama and gravitas of my last stand news post.
*laughs wildly* Yeah, we need to advance the main adventures, dont get stuck here discussing spells in middle of the campaign..,)
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