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Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:34 pm
by TH - The Hunt
I'd think that's the main thing the spell is for, instigation.

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:38 pm
by JB - Jontinius Bruin
That and "Vulfrum's Celeritous Lieutenant"

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:53 pm
by DM Juan
Let's go with Option 1, I guess.

You both secretly bid, with no knowledge of what each other are bidding. The higher bidder wins (tie goes to the caster), the defender only has to defeat the "extra bid" they don't have to match the underlying spell.

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:00 pm
by TH - The Hunt
With those rules, I think I'd never use it unless I was confident the target either had no RP or wasn't going to bother spending it. But maybe I'm just lacking imagination for situations where casting the spell and bidding enough to force it through (regardless of the response) would be worth doing.

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:02 pm
by DM Juan
Subversion is more useful to force chaos, or to sneak in an extra action (have a wizard trade one of their actions for you to get an extra action, for 3-12RP). It is sometimes better than Defection, if you have more RP than the target.

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:05 pm
by DM Juan
Or if you hit a number of their units with subversion, they spook and bid a lot of RP to oppose it, but you bid nothing to force it through, and follow up with a second subversion?

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:09 pm
by TH - The Hunt
Might work as a way to gauge or provoke a response even if you don't intend it to succeed, yeah.

<Sad party favour noise as the regent bids against their lieutenant surprising them with a birthday gift.>

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:24 pm
by RaH - Rassan al Hamam
So do you know before you bid what the attacker has targeted? like how many units?

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:33 pm
by WB - Water's Blessing
VV - Vic Vru wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:24 pm
So do you know before you bid what the attacker has targeted? like how many units?
I made that mistake too. They're talking about subversion, not defection. With subversion, you can target the whole army. So, assume all of them.

Re: Undefined how to bid - Subversion

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:38 pm
by RaH - Rassan al Hamam
Yea I mean you know if an army/LT/Holding is targeted ?