Castles

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Castles

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:44 am

Is there no way to make Castles give units inside them bonuses to defense based on the level of the castle? Like a level 5 Castle could house 5 units and give them all +5 to their defense bonus?

Is the only way to do that to create "castle units" for every level of a castle? Like Infantry you would need to make Castle Infantry Level 1, Castle Infantry Level 2, Castle Infantry Level 3 etc on up to 10?

If that is the case then that would be like having to create 10 more units for each of the current 80 ish units so 800 new units.

That would be a pain in the ass..... but castles should give bonuses to units inside them realistically.

Any way to farm out the making of those units?

I men at the least maybe we could knock it down to making only 3x more units by giving +2 defense to units inside castles level 1-4, +4 to units in castles 4-9, and +8 defense to units inside castles level 10.

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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Castles

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:39 am

I would assume Birmail has a mechanic for the castle bonus. If not it could be done as a "realm spell". I am guessing it is not robust enough to remove the charge from units due to terrain (thus requiring the terrain/unit additions)

Once the defence exceeds attack value by 3 the benefits are maxed out, there is no additional benefit for more bonus defence. Fortifications are probably most impactful for the first couple levels in this way. I don't know if that's an argument for reducing the bonus per level or not.

It may be appropriate to limit the bonus defence and units to assault battles, not province battles.
Siegecraft NWP and Artillerist should be useful for countering the bonus.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"

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AaH - Avicerra al Hamam
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Re: Castles

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:55 am

As it is now Juan adds a unit to the battle depending on the lvl of the castle. In small battles that is better than adding defense to levies. In large battles added defense would be better. Also a castle should not be able to help a huge army as it would not be able to house all of them. Question would be how many should be affected.

If the lvl of the castle should add defense to units Juan would have to make an extra sett of all units for the different terrain types and different lvls of the castles. That is quite some work for Juan.

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DM Juan
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Re: Castles

Post by DM Juan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:43 am

It is BirBattle that runs the battle.

It would be doable to have castles add defence to each unit, I most certainly wouldn't pre-create every potential unit. It is about the same difficulty as adding Bless Army and/or Haelyn's Courage and/or Battle Fury. Can you imagine the millions of permutations though with yet another modifier? HM - Bless - Fury - Castle 1 - Levies ... HM - Bless - Fury - Castle 2 - Levies... ETC

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Castles

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:57 am

If it’s not much work cool but if it’s a bitch then fuck it. Maybe have castles act as a unit of same power as their cost to build would be easier and have a close to same effect?

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DM Juan
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Re: Castles

Post by DM Juan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:07 am

I could make the castle units better, that would certainly be a lot easier.

nm=Castle 1;mv=1;df=2;mr=4;ml=2,1;ch=n;mi=2,1;ht=1;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 2;mv=1;df=3;mr=4;ml=2,1;ch=n;mi=2,1;ht=1;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 3;mv=1;df=3;mr=4;ml=3,2,1;ch=n;mi=3,2,1;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 4;mv=1;df=4;mr=4;ml=4,2,1;ch=n;mi=4,2,1;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 5;mv=1;df=5;mr=4;ml=4,3,2;ch=n;mi=4,3,2;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 6;mv=1;df=6;mr=4;ml=4,3,2;ch=n;mi=4,3,2;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 7;mv=1;df=7;mr=4;ml=5,3,2,0;ch=n;mi=5,3,2,0;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 8;mv=1;df=8;mr=4;ml=5,4,2,1;ch=n;mi=5,4,2,1;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 9;mv=1;df=9;mr=4;ml=5,4,3,2;ch=n;mi=5,4,3,2;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 10;mv=1;df=10;mr=4;ml=5,4,4,3;ch=n;mi=5,4,4,3;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;


Currently:
nm=Castle 1;mv=1;df=1;mr=4;ml=1,0;ch=n;mi=1,0;ht=1;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 2;mv=1;df=2;mr=4;ml=1,0;ch=n;mi=1,0;ht=1;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 3;mv=1;df=3;mr=4;ml=2,1,0;ch=n;mi=2,1,0;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 4;mv=1;df=4;mr=4;ml=2,1,0;ch=n;mi=2,1,1;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 5;mv=1;df=5;mr=4;ml=2,1,0;ch=n;mi=3,2,1;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 6;mv=1;df=6;mr=4;ml=2,1,0;ch=n;mi=3,2,1;ht=2;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 7;mv=1;df=7;mr=4;ml=3,2,1,0;ch=n;mi=3,2,1,0;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 8;mv=1;df=8;mr=4;ml=3,2,1,0;ch=n;mi=3,2,1,1;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 9;mv=1;df=9;mr=4;ml=3,2,1,0;ch=n;mi=3,3,2,1;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;
nm=Castle 10;mv=1;df=10;mr=4;ml=3,2,1,0;ch=n;mi=4,3,2,1;ht=3;sv=19;rg=Mercs;

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Castles

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:16 am

Simplicity over realism is better when the realism would be hours of mind numbing work that slows down the game/wears out the DM. Castle increase is good enough. The change above makes them much more desirable and useful as opposed to the weak weak slight speed bump they were.

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AaH - Avicerra al Hamam
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Re: Castles

Post by AaH - Avicerra al Hamam » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:09 am

I agree that castles could be increased a bit as you propose Juan. And that is much bettern than that 20 units should be buffed by a castle even if they dont have all space in it.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Castles

Post by TH - The Hunt » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:36 pm

As I understand it, battles take place outside castles, so it wouldn't make sense for them to provide a combat bonus to the army inside them. Being inside fortifications means your units are immune from attack unless the fortification is besieged, sabotaged, or assaulted, and the game assumes that sieges and assaults are conducted in such a way a (incredibly lopsided in favour of the defenders) battle does not need to take place (i.e., sappers, infiltrators, long-range bombardment). In the case of siegecraft checks, a failure means no change in the status quo and the attacker's action is wasted.

The purpose of fortifications is not to win battles, it's to control the strategic situation. They can help in battles by doing that in a small way, but that's because the castle is a safe place to retreat to and a dangerous place to approach, not because it's "a powerful unit".

Hmm, would it break things if you gave them Move 0? (I don't know if Birmail simulates tactical movement even in a simplified way.)
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LMC - Lord Mayor Cowell
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Re: Castles

Post by LMC - Lord Mayor Cowell » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:59 pm

Well, some of the units will be inside. if you try to take a province over, you haveto assault, and the defender will be on the parameters, which is a massive buff.

But in that case it should be like, castle level units get the buff, since thats how many would fit inside.

A castle with no units inside should not be stronger though. Does not matter if its the mightiest castle in the world if there are no defenders.

Maybe make castle units unable to die until all other units are defeated?
Lord Mayor Cowell VI

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