Law Holdings

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

I think the real problem isn't the law holdings. It's the norms we have developed around using them. I have argued before that law claims should be automatic, and that the default should be that trade routes begin with a 50% tax rate and should take a decree to change.

So the default is the sheriff of Nottingham performing the maximum shakedown possible?

And trade routes make 0% profit by default? 50% for regent A then 50% for rengent B? A seasonal loss equal to ship maintenance to even run that route?

If I ever played a guild under those conditions, I would have to charge a punitive price for access to resources transported along that route.

[DCT - Destiny Corben-Talas]

WEll, the tendence in this late game has been not allowing easily guilds into other's provinces for fear of blackops and wanting to gain gold for the warriors. What is a crap,as the guilders dont earn RP from trade routes, and neither the warriors. A waste of RPs..,)

[HaQ - Hakim al-Qadr]

Law Claims are taxation. Taxing the Church and Mercantile activity to pay for the defence of the realm. Unless you are particularly libertarian where all tax is theft - they are not theft. 50% tax on your side of the trade route I think AB meant. Which whenever I have played guilders is what I have agreed to pay...

[WB - Water's Blessing]

Yep. 50% of province income. Regent A gets 50% of their side of the value, regent B gets 50% of their side of the value. Assuming the two provinces were the same sized and ran by different regents, regent A would get 25% of the value, regent B would get 25% of the value, and guilder A would get 50% of the value.

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

Law Claims are targeted shakedowns. Either corrupt/tyrannical government officials, or unassociated bandits.

The local teamsters and tradesmen don't pay anything until they organize their association with a regent. Those associations create efficiencies and economic opportunities that generate new income. So if it is a tax, it's taxing people associating with each other?

If you disagree, then maybe law holdings should generate money, as tax independent of other holdings being around or not. Then we would have a mechanic for law to do targeted harassment and banditry in the form of law claims.

[WB - Water's Blessing]

That's the norm problem I was pointing to. I strongly disagree that they are shakedowns. They're a normal part of taxation. That people view them as shakedowns is why (some) law regents are reluctant to use them. As law regent, I have always law claimed everyone and everything in range as a normal part of business.

What I consider to be the shakedowns are the asks for more GBs or regular grants above and beyond the law claims.

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

Yep. 50% of province income. Regent A gets 50% of their side of the value, regent B gets 50% of their side of the value. Assuming the two provinces were the same sized and ran by different regents, regent A would get 25% of the value, regent B would get 25% of the value, and guilder A would get 50% of the value.

Income tax is a very modern concept, and if that is the basis for taxation then the costs of setting up and maintaining a trade route should be deductible, shouldn't it.

Medieval trade taxes took the form of tariffs, If tariffs increased, then those goods became rare and a different good would be traded in stead.

Perhaps regents wanting to tax trade should generate this revenue through the decree mechanic. Sure the guilder may pay the cost, or you may end up losing loyalty when your supporters have to pay through the nose for the goods they are buying from importers, or your armies may cost more to maintain cause their is a shortage of whetstones with such crazy tarifs.

Birthight is an extension of the Classic D&D group, expanded on at the realm level.

Each class should have their strengths and weakness, and no one domain should automatically be beholden to another without recourse as a matter of game design.

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

That's the norm problem I was pointing to. I strongly disagree that they are shakedowns. They're a normal part of taxation. That people view them as shakedowns is why (some) law regents are reluctant to use them. As law regent, I have always law claimed everyone and everything in range as a normal part of business.

What I consider to be the shakedowns are the asks for more GBs or regular grants above and beyond the law claims.

Check out the anatomy of a law holding section from the book of regency.

It is not normal taxation. It is targeted interference by the law holder against another domain.

[WB - Water's Blessing]

You can certainly interpret it that way. I do not. I think law claim need to be normalized. They help to address a lot of the problems with the game (temples and especially guilders having too much money relative to landed regents) and they help to create more unpredictability in income, which I consider to be a good thing.

[YK - Yuri Khavlor]

Guilders have too much income as ship maintenance has been reduced to 0 for coasters.
Gold cannot be used to bid on actions (other then espionage)

Landed Regents have had the ability to collect severe taxes restricted, to occasional or single province only.

So if they are out of balance, perhaps those changes need to be rolled back, rather then normalize other mechanics by viewing them through a force perspective of treating them as something they are not.

"Law claims represent interfering with another regents domain" It is not a tax, otherwise it would work regardless of whether or not the local guilds and temples are organized or not.