Birthright: Chimaeron

Source holdings unlock more powerful realm spells up to 7th. With leylines, they only need one of those.

Ley lines are also costly and in fact there are only two spells higher the lvl5 source needed interesting- never used them or seeing them used anywhere.
Law holdings unlock higher trainable units as I understand? I am not vs. making law holdings better, I would point out, that source holders have a similar interest in getting more love.

High level spells have been used. I used stronghold multiple times when I played Adriala the dark. I think it was used last game too? If you´ve never used them, well, your missing out on a powerful option.

Its unrelated to topic anyway.

And either way, its next game changes, not mid game ones when its this big of an effect.

Sources are significantly more valuable than law. Also they are easier to rule up in both cost (can negate the GB charge with an admin check) and have spellcraft NWP as well which can be used to increase chance to create/rule.

The only reason we think Law is weak is because people don't use them offensively very often.

Law can destroy every holding in a province (contest all holding types).
Law can Law Claim a province.
Law can oppose the loyalty of a province
Law can contest a province

The seem boring and under powered because we see them as simply there to support the ruling regent. If the Law holder turns against the Province owner - it is a disaster for them.

RC - Riva wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:39 am

While the ability Law Holdings brings to the table are significant, they are one of the least desirable holding types for a number of reasons, chief being lack of income.

Absolutely agree they are powerful. Pointing out the cost of ruling them up isn't really there.


Right now, about the only reason to rule them past 50% would be to prevent someone else from getting a foothold.

Tax Levels
None: Potential 2 steps increase in loyalty
Light: No Change
Moderate: Potential 1 step decrease in loyalty
Severe: Potential 3 step decrease in loyalty

Full Law: Ignore 2 steps of decrease
Half Law: Ignore 1 step of decrease


Another reason is to go Severe Tax, and only lose 1 step of loyalty.

Full Law + Severe Tax + Free Agitate from Cathedral

MD - Mishrak wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:53 am

Full Law + Severe Tax + Free Agitate from Cathedral

When you have to use an exception to make it viable, it goes to show my point.

Guilds, valuable to maximum level as the guild regent regardless.
Temples, valuable to maximum level as the priest regent regardless.
Sources, valuable to maximum level as the wizard regent regardless.

Law, valuable...but only to 50% unless there is an exception build going.

Law holdings influence how much you can take in claims (Higher law = probably bigger take) and trade route taxes. Letting one domain dominate your temples or guilds is a suboptimal strategy for law regents. Allowing monopolies gives too much power to the temple or the guild. Ideally, you want to have at least two temples and two guilds in each of your law provinces, along with max law, so you can maximize your law claim gains.

I think the real problem isn't the law holdings. It's the norms we have developed around using them. I have argued before that law claims should be automatic, and that the default should be that trade routes begin with a 50% tax rate and should take a decree to change.