Future game set-up concepts

[CSF - Flint]

In cooperative story-telling, the story is over when the majority think its over. Was I done with Friedrich's story when the world blew up in the Great Bay? No. It was just getting started. But each of our individual stories are side-stories. If the majority feel like the story here is exhausted, then it's time to move on even if some of us still have tales we would like to play out. For the record, I am in agreement with others that the meta-plot feel done enough even if the story of the mountain people has longer to go. Plus, I don't see this story as a self-contained story. The epic of the gods was a three-part story last time. So, the end of this game wouldn't be the end of the story. It would be the end of the first act.

But even if it wasn't, this story could easily be seen as a self-contained story. I feel, and I think a strong case could be made, that the climax of this story was the Shieldlands war. Most of the regents of this game was involved in that war in one way or the other. It was the clash where the Islands and the western forces squared off against the Hunt with the Shieldlands being the battlefield for the conflict. Everything after that could be seen as the "return to normal".

Excellent point. We shouldnt let one person hold the rest of us hostage if the consensus is ready to move on. Judging by the huge activity drop I suspect that is the case.

[WB - Water's Blessing]

Previous games haven't ended because the majority felt that the story was over, they ended because the majority felt the story couldn't continue due to events beyond their control. And not long ago in this conversation, that was the argument being made. Either way, 'the majority' hasn't spoken, a minority is choosing to speak for them as if the rest need to be dragged along by a so-called 'group decision'. This has become typical. I know for a fact that at the end of each game before there were many players frustrated by the game abruptly ending due to events beyond their control while they were in the middle of something, or on the cusp of something. I would dare to say that's been the experience of the majority, here.

At the series level, tension has been building up game after game without being released. This has explicitly become part of the story. If what we do with D4 in the end doesn't resolve this, that means D4 itself can't be the climax of the series like it's been built up to be, it's at best the midpoint. No argument is going to turn it into a resolution if the same tensions from D1 (or earlier!) still dominate at the end of D4. Like, if D4 establishes a pantheon that has the same or worse flaws and instabilities than the previous ones. A story that 'ends' like that--like these!--is a story that isn't finished.

Point 2 is basically what I said -- this chapter is part of a larger story. The larger story isn't finished. It will be continued in the next story Juan tells.

Point 1 -- I said my characters' story wasn't complete last time, and I don't think so this time either. So, I'm not disagreeing with you. But, you're ignoring my central point -- you can't confuse your individual character stories with the metaplot. I think the metaplot has reached a natural conclusion. You may disagree, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean my opinion is wrong.

Ultiumately, these stories are more about the metaplot than in any individual character plot. We can tell whatever stories we want in our heads about our characters and we can share them with one another, but the metaplot is the cooperative story we are telling together. When most players stop telling that story, it's time to turn the page and start a new chapter. I play, ultimately, because I enjoy Juan's overarching story and I love his world-building. So, even though my character story could continue, I'm more interested to see the next chapter of Juan's saga at this point. If others think otherwise, I'd be happy to hear them say so.

[TH - The Hunt]

Excellent point. We shouldnt let one person hold the rest of us hostage if the consensus is ready to move on. Judging by the huge activity drop I suspect that is the case.

The majority of players have built up things that will be rendered irrelevant if the game ends, many of whom haven't had the opportunity to use them at all yet. Not just one. You're inventing your false consensus out of nothing--while ignoring that the resignation and disengagement of others is something a minority of players have striven to engineer.

[TH - The Hunt]

Ultiumately, these stories are more about the metaplot than in any individual character plot. We can tell whatever stories we want in our heads about our characters and we can share them with one another, but the metaplot is the cooperative story we are telling together. When most players stop telling that story, it's time to turn the page and start a new chapter.

I agree with this, but I don't believe that is what is actually happening. I believe what we're seeing here is an attempt by a small, sore, but influential group of players to pull the wool over the eyes of others and force a reset so that things they don't want to see happen will be less likely, and things they do want to see happen will, they hope, be more likely. This attempt to claim things are over and need to move on to D5 or whatever right now or very soon is not a natural development of the story, it's just one among many power plays, and if it worked it wouldn't be the first time Juan got pushed around and, consequently, the majority of his players got jerked around, because of what a small group of players did, where the other players didn't see what they were up to.

As a side point, stories do not have to follow the rigid structures you have indicated above.

Don't get confused, or try to confuse others. The structures above aren't rigid, they're flexible and varied. What you should be seeing is not specific patterns that have to be followed, but instead the most general one.

Tension (the result of conflict) that builds and then is released is what a story is made of. Each contains one or more 'arcs' that follow this general pattern, these are what make stories interesting, amusing, thrilling, dramatic, erotic, tragic or enjoyable in whatever other way stories can be enjoyable. If it doesn't form a complete arc, it isn't a story--not even a bad one. It might be part of a story if it's an incomplete arc; for example, where tensions rise without being released, or are released without being built up in the narrative first. Unfortunately for anyone invested in such an incomplete story, though, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The reader ends up having to do the heavy lifting of imagining the rest if they want to be satisfied.

If the 'arc' is just is flat or random, it's noise, not part of a story, even if it might be inside one. This isn't because English majors are snooty, it's because the laws of thermodynamics exist. Stories are something special, and though they can happen at random, it takes energy to make them happen. The natural tendency is toward more misses than hits. A lassez-faire attitude can only accidentally produce something that could be substituted for good work.

[WB - Water's Blessing]

Ultiumately, these stories are more about the metaplot than in any individual character plot. We can tell whatever stories we want in our heads about our characters and we can share them with one another, but the metaplot is the cooperative story we are telling together. When most players stop telling that story, it's time to turn the page and start a new chapter.

I agree with this, but I don't believe that is what is actually happening. I believe what we're seeing here is an attempt by a small, sore, but influential group of players to pull the wool over the eyes of others and force a reset so that things they don't want to see happen will be less likely, and things they do want to see happen will, they hope, be more likely. This attempt to claim things are over and need to move on to D5 or whatever right now or very soon is not a natural development of the story, it's just one among many power plays, and if it worked it wouldn't be the first time Juan got pushed around and, consequently, the majority of his players got jerked around, because of what a small group of players did, where the other players didn't see what they were up to.

I don't think that's what's happening at all. I know for me, I had to step back for a few weeks because of the beginning of the school year and because of a conference I was participating in. After a couple weeks more-or-less away from the game, I came back to it with fresh eyes and decided that the game looked resolved. Because of that, I have more enthusiasm for thinking about what my next character might be than for picking back up with the current ones.

To be fair, the beginning of any game is always my favorite part. I particularly love the "fog of war" map phase of these settler games. So, it doesn't take all that much for me to get excited about starting a new game.

[TF - The Fortress]

Making new characters and establishing new relationships is always the fun part!

[WB - Water's Blessing]

Making new characters and establishing new relationships is always the fun part!

Yeah. I love seeing how different someone will be from game to game, and maybe getting a chance to play more with someone I haven't played with much in a while because of how the last game shaped up.

[TH - The Hunt]

I used to feel excited about starting a new game, but I can't when every game gets derailed into skyrocketing tension that never gets resolved, when each time the game gets aborted in the middle by some kind of meta-shenanigans before much besides one straight-line streak can happen. It's not just that all the potential collapses, it doesn't even get realized.

[JB - Jana Boulderbrew]

I believe what we're seeing here is an attempt by a small, sore, but influential group of players to pull the wool over the eyes of others and force a reset so that things they don't want to see happen will be less likely, and things they do want to see happen will, they hope, be more likely. This attempt to claim things are over and need to move on to D5 or whatever right now or very soon is not a natural development of the story, it's just one among many power plays, and if it worked it wouldn't be the first time Juan got pushed around and, consequently, the majority of his players got jerked around, because of what a small group of players did, where the other players didn't see what they were up to.

Maybe I should have explained more, but I only expressed how I experienced the game at this point. And I'm not in any way claiming to speak for others (but of course anyone is free to agree or disagree how they see fit). Neither did wanted to imply that the game should end or be reset.

[TF - The Fortress]

MF, it may be a perspective thing then -- the tension in this one definitely seems resolved from my viewpoint.