Future game set-up concepts

[TH - The Hunt]

Maybe I should have explained more, but I only expressed how I experienced the game at this point. And I'm not in any way claiming to speak for others (but of course anyone is free to agree or disagree how they see fit). Neither did wanted to imply that the game should end or be reset.

I know. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were doing those things.

MF, it may be a perspective thing then -- the tension in this one definitely seems resolved from my viewpoint.

There are perspectives from which the tension hasn't started to build yet. Yes, from what I understand your character lost everything and has no surviving attachments. I would guess the reason you're eager to start over is because you aren't interested in redeeming or avenging him or taking control of a new character when a new game would let you skip a few steps without losing anything. Your position is even more of an outlier than mine is, though. Most PCs in this game still have a lot to lose and plentiful attachments.

As a general, ethical thing, we can't just keep starting over every time things get 'stuck' or else we'll never learn how to get things 'unstuck' and will just keep getting stuck again. A few players might not lose anything when that happens, but most players lose what they've worked on for dozens of turns, and never get to experience most of what they set out to when they imagined their characters, and tried to build a unique domain.

[TF - The Fortress]

?

Actually Riva gave away all of his holdings back in Turn 18 or so. The Ruin card actually only removed the vestiges of old things for him (ie loss of shrine, shipyard, and training grounds -- all of which he hadn't utilized since he passed on his holdings).

As a ranger, Riva was never about 'materialistic stuff' -- I even noted in the background post for the Aelvenwode that the settlement took on his name over his objection.

His story arc ended a few turns past when he accepted Hircine as his faith and recognized his fight against it had been for personal reasons as opposed to truly differentiated beliefs with the faith. There's no redemption needed, his redemption came when he made peace with his brother and aided in a number of things. There is also no avenging needed, as he had nothing to avenge. The settlement he began has thrived and will grow, even after he has moved on, which was always his desire.

I had the option of bringing in a new character circa Turn 20 or so -- but it was made clear the story was in the final stages, so starting a brand new character and having only a few turns at most to try and get them tied in and moving along seemed to be less desirable than just bringing back the old one and riding out the last bit.

And this has nothing to do with ethics -- the characters/players aren't stuck -- we've reached a natural end-point to the story for the meta-plot. Yes, individual characters will have lives and continue on, but their efforts will have little (if any) impact on the meta-plot, which is essentially resolved (save for a couple of pieces which the vast majority of players have no impact on at this point).

And I would challenge your assumption about most players losing what they've worked on for dozens of turns (not to mention we've just had a little over 2 dozen turns in total).

[TH - The Hunt]

Hitting the reset button when the game gets stuck gives some players an incentive to sabotage the game and any efforts to salvage it. What makes this even worse is that when players lose hope, they'll be eager to restart or stop playing even if they are losing what they've worked on, because they'll have already written it off or thrown it away.

When players are confident the reset button's going to be hit if they smash enough other buttons, they're less careful what buttons they push and when. If they don't like how the game is going for them, they can just try to make it crash. We've been experiencing the results of that.

I would challenge the idea that the natural end point for the game would make the course of the main plot a straight line with no significant setbacks or surprises. What was even the point of playing in that case? That's like taking a rope, fraying it to oblivion, lifting one thread without manipulating it, and then cuing the choir to sing in praise of our grand tapestry.

[TF - The Fortress]

MF, you seem fixated on the game being 'stuck.' The primary point from what I see here (by myself, Alim, and AA -- if I am misrepresenting either of you, please indicate so) is that it has reached its natural conclusion for the meta-plot.

You also seem to be fixated on players 'losing hope.' I don't believe this is a part of the equation at all. Just because we've read the story and reached (what to us is) its natural conclusion and are ready to begin the next chapter/story has nothing to do with 'losing hope' and everything to do with desiring to put our efforts and time into something new.

Given these games have regularly run between 20 and 30 turns, I don't see it any way as players trying to smash buttons. Average for the last five games has been 23.5 turns each.


This particular iteration began in January 2021 (26 turns).

The Kraken game ran July 2020 to Jan 2021 (14 turns).

The Flight from Shadows ran April 2019 to July 2020 (22 turns).

The Diaspora ran May 2018 to Feb 2019 (30 turns).

The Taelshore ran July 2016 to Apr 2018 (26 turns).

[TH - The Hunt]

The game hasn't reached a conclusion, period. You're prematurely trying to claim that it has, while also trying to claim that the natural conclusion is one that was predicted more than fifteen turns ago, which would make the game mostly a waste of time. Even if you were right, it would be insulting.

Looking back on the precedent isn't very helpful when the precedent is that every game gets aborted abruptly in the middle due to some event. The unresolvably giant battles in Diaspora I made it impractical for Juan to continue running it after the hiatus. Volcanic eruptions and divine shenanigans that came out of nowhere from most perspectives ended D2 and D3 suddenly. The aliens and the portal had the same effect in Taelshore (with the devils and the new portal contributing heavily in D3). Since I first joined this game, in five I have played so far, none has came anywhere close to a natural conclusion.

[TF - The Fortress]

None have come close to what you believe is a natural conclusion.

There has been a concensus in most games that it had concluded.

In regards to D2 and D3, there was extensive foreshadowing and information indicating the end game was drawing near in each.

In the end, you can argue the game hasn't reached a conclusion until you are blue in the face. For you it is not over, for many others, it is.

[TH - The Hunt]

I guess your face is just naturally blue, then.

[CSF - Flint]

Making new characters and establishing new relationships is always the fun part!

Yeah. I love seeing how different someone will be from game to game, and maybe getting a chance to play more with someone I haven't played with much in a while because of how the last game shaped up.

This was a high point of the game for me, talking to AB after having cold/hostile relations during the 2 previous games, and being natural allies with common goals this time. Someone with whom I wasnt able to build a relationship before who I got to have good RP interactions with this game. Breaking up the cliqueyness which tends to form when the alliances coagulate.

[TH - The Hunt]

A very weird way to describe taking advantage of them.

[AaH - Avicerra al Hamam]

This game is not made for playing 30+ turns. The administive work for Juan increases as more GB comes into circulation and more units are produced. If you want a longer games many changes have to me made (Income reduced, unit upkeep increased etc). Also in this game one side has the ultimate sea superiority. This makes the Islanders completly isolated. Not everyone has the stamina to play 6 more months when they are the underdogs.

MF and RC please agree to disagree.