Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:27 pm

The investiture is powered by the Divine blood within the parties involved and the investiture can work with that divine blood regardless of gods. We all had divine blood and investitures were done before any gods were on the rise let alone ascended. So the divine blood itself is the catalyst for all transfers and breach punishments.

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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:34 pm

Potential Losses (p48)
A regent who fails to address a random event or hostile action, or violates his alignment, may lose some of his accumulated RP. Violations are cumulative; two minor infractions in the same domain turn quality as a major loss; two major infractions as a Catastrophic.

Minor: losses are the result of minor alignment infractions, or Destruction of multiple holdings (this means the removal of holding 0s).
Effect: Lose 1d2+1 point of bloodline strength, and 25% of your RP.

Major: losses are the result of serious alignment infractions, or forced divestiture of a single province. The breaking of a vassalage agreement will also constitute a Major Loss. A failure to uphold your liege duties is also a Major Loss.
Effect: Lose 1d4+1 points of bloodline strength, and 50% of your RP.

Catastrophic: losses are the result of alignment reversals (LE -> CG, for example), or forced divestiture of a group of provinces.
Effect: Lose 2d4+1 points of bloodline strength, and 100% of your RP.

NB: A settled agreement that sees a player lose part of their domain would not be considered a loss on the above list of losses. It is only the forceful loss of holdings/provinces.
Again and again, it talks about alignment violations, not treaty violations. The closest it gets to that is 'the breaking of a vassalage agreement' or 'a failure to uphold your liege duties' but that triggers even if neither player involved considers anything untoward to have taken place.

Yeah, the blood is important, but the blood doesn't just float around in scions' bodies, it comes from ruling domains. Regents (should) have to respect that. And they should have to respect it more than they have to respect words or pieces of paper.
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WB - Water's Blessing
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:44 pm

DH - Dweomerheart wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:22 pm
I personally have the opinion, that blood oaths or forced vasslage combined with loss of blood if breached are used to dominate and control other players. It should be something really seldom or bounded to a special course and not a routine where you can give contracts more security. Why should gods have interest in such petty matters.
Because the oaths can only be sealed through an investiture, which means they can only be sealed if the gods bless and allow it. So, when you break the oath to another party, you are also breaking faith with the god(s) who blessed the agreement.

That's why they would care.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:47 pm

And again investitures were done before any gods were more than a thought. So a case can be made it is based on the parties involved’s divine blood and outside anything a god has to say about it.

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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by LK - Lady Katrijn » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:48 pm

I think it really would depend of the god in question. Is upholding law part of the domain of the deity? Then it would be concerned. Otherwise it is outside a deity's domain and they are unconcerned.
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by LK - Lady Katrijn » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:52 pm

BM - Braun von Mauler wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:47 pm
And again investitures were done before any gods were more than a thought. So a case can be made it is based on the parties involved’s divine blood and outside anything a god has to say about it.
In that case I think it should come down to the alignment of the player. Just how lawful is said character. If they were lawful and broke such an agreement they should take a loss. If they were neutral it would probably be more blurry, and if the player was chaotic, then agreements really don't mean anything.
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:29 pm

I think it is a set of conditions placed on the blood just like a holding is transferred. A set of conditions are transferred into your blood and nothing else matters. Not alignment not gods opinions etc. The cleric of the gods can refuse the investiture of the holding or conditions of a deal into the blood but once the ceremony is done it is set in the blood.

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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:30 pm

Strongly disagree with that interpretation. It's the gods, not the blood.
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:34 pm

Gods don't have the power to cause regency loss, that's for sure. They've got enough powers as it is, and they're as bad at striving to understand what regency requires as regents are.
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Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:37 pm

They do if you build it into one of their investitures, apparently.
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