Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:50 pm

Then who was performing the investitures before any gods were rising?

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:52 pm

Blood is divine. The divinity of the first clerics blood is what allowed him to manipulate the divine blood of the others. They can manipulate blood and lay conditions upon it but once that task “the ceremony” is done then it is all set in place. They have no power over it afterwards.

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:54 pm

When the divine blood link between a regent and his holdings is severed and there are no heirs it doesn’t go to gods choice it goes to lands choice.

User avatar
WB - Water's Blessing
King
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:01 pm
Location: Mind your own business

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:00 pm

Again, apparently Juan sees it differently.

And, it's not any divine blood that can do it. It's divine essence backed up by worshippers believing in that divine essence. That it cannot happen without a cleric and a faith ipso facto means that gods make it happen, not the blood itself. That the god essence is still nascent and not fully ascended doesn't change that it's god essence that empowers it, and if it's god essence that empowers it it follows that it would be god essence that would enforce it.

It's land's choice when the gods don't fix an outcome. When they do intervene, it's the gods' will that carries the day. And, given that we're playing a session where the land is literally a divine essence (the planet-force), one could still reasonably argue that a god is still making things happen.
WB - Temple of the Water's Blessing

"You can be forgiven, if you make amends..."

User avatar
DM Juan
Site Admin
Posts: 3246
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by DM Juan » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:10 pm

In core BR, Sidhelien are the only ones able to bypass the requirement of divine sanction (investiture spell) to transfer assets. The Divine-Event allowing you to side-step Priests was sanctioned by Gaia. It still had a divine backer, it simply bypassed the priestly requirement.

Part of the core concept of this game is that the choices the divine are making when they expand their portfolios (increase tiers) have world-shaping consequences. Choices and consequences matter. How the Gaian faith decides to enforce, or not, the divine investiture it allowed, has significant game-effecting repercussions beyond simply the "truth or righteousness" of either position. These events are not in a vacuum.

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:20 pm

Then precedent is set for religions to revoke holding and province investitures after the fact as well whenever the whim hits them. Whoever transferred the realm from Borric to Braun the first time can revoke that investiture and give it all back to Braun.

User avatar
DM Juan
Site Admin
Posts: 3246
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by DM Juan » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:24 pm

I don't follow the logic...

Priests can refuse to conduct investitures, and state faiths of one of the parties to the investiture, have to be used when a priesthood is used.
The Divine-Gaia event broke the rules, that is what the Divine Events do.

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:32 pm

I’m not real worried about how you want to make it official I’m interested in this one particular deal where I was lied to OOC which caused me not to write up a long text. It wasn’t some clever deception to take what was mine. It was a broken real life trust. Make a decision about that investiture and I’ll deal with it one way or another. Having it dealt with IC cannot take into account the OOC aspect of it so do whatever.

The logic is the only input a religion has should be in the investitures when it is made. He broke the deal there is no judgement of how it should be handled afterwards. The deal is already broken and punishment should take place. It is not up for some god to decide after the fact if it is right or wrong as that was already invested when the deal was made. Then having anything g to do with it afterwards sets a precedent for them to alter things after all investitures which were also already finished on completion of the initial investiture.

User avatar
WM - The Waste Mage
King
Posts: 666
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:34 pm

All you have to use is the fact the punishment wasn’t written up which I explained why. That’s an OOC bullshit issue and isn’t fixable by some other players opinion. So do whatever.

User avatar
TH - The Hunt
Emperor
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Re: Using "Blood Failure" to enforce Agreements

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:12 pm

The first gods were just as they were. Then they died, and left behind bloodlines. Bloodlines are the essence of dead gods, which is also grounded in the land and rocks and other things. The new gods (and any aspiring new gods) have to draw on that, they don't have any inherent power. (The first gods may or may not have gotten their power from elsewhere, but before they died it hadn't leaked all over the place, and without any blooded characters, Investitures of blooded regents weren't a thing.)
"The Hunt rides. The Hunt protects."

Post Reply