Topic: Armies too large

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:44 pm

A direct way to reduce the amount of gold available would be to have random raids conducted on us by NPCs we can't fight at the beginning of the game. They could be progressively replaced with other threats, perhaps including an awnshegh or emperor who might demand tribute once we get their attention. I think the game rules expect raids and pillaging to be more common, but less methodical than players tend to inflict on each other, so letting NPCs serve as the hand of entropy could keep the game working for longer and with more depth. Random events soak up actions, but they're less effective for soaking up armies or stirring the pot... especially since if a player's actions are soaked up, they can't stir the pot.

Harsh terrain also provides more end-game objectives for war, limits army sizes, and gives players a reason to play more competitively. (Especially the ones in the harshest terrain.) If the richest provinces are far apart, even the most successful factions will struggle to hold several of them unilaterally.
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DB - Diarmuid
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:51 pm

Smaller domains, higher attrition (triple current levels to include having attrition during summer --- heat and warm weather tended to cause infections and disease to spread like wildfire). Those together go a long way towards capping troops.

Still too much gold? Increase upkeep. Each building costs .5 GB to maintain. We like buildings, but just because we've finished building it doesn't mean the costs should stop. Roof leaks, termites in the foundation, small issue with the plumbing which fills the basement with septic fecal matter....
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HBH - Bloodmage
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by HBH - Bloodmage » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:02 pm

I believe a lot of our issues with armies too large is directly related to the size of the map. Make the game smaller and therefore resources get fewer and you’ll already see the army sizes go down. Short of that, I think one of the desires is to make things easier for Juan. Meaning overly complicated rules would not be desired. Why not a simple cap to the number of units. Call it force pool if you want, but make it oh so simple... I like simple.
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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:08 pm

If army size is capped by 'force pool' instead of by practical concerns (like the cost to build and maintain one, or the relative utility of doing so), there's little point in building a character (or faith) designed to make a large army more manageable, and a much stronger incentive to optimize the mobility and impact of whatever force is available. Perhaps a bigger problem is that it means realms that have reached their force cap will have more gold than they can spend, so they'll have no incentive to fight for resources.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:18 pm

What about getting rid of gold as a basis for how many units you can maintain and making it based on nobility rank or prestige. Gold can be used to upgrade units hits and attacks but if top rank is 5 units that caps it out at 5 x number of players. With a delay in units reforming that are lost mitigated by buildings and gold and nwps. No huge armies unless you have a large alliance and even then still only ever 100 ish units in game.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:28 pm

That only works if the premise of the game is that we're all thralls to some lord from the start. I don't know what could explain that, and it seems to severely limit the potential character concepts available for play... unless this lord is some sort of fey or alien being from the shadow or beyond.

I do like the idea of training units with upgrades and new special abilities, but more as an option than as a core mechanic. And it wouldn't be much fun here, in the end, since there's very little focus on individual units in Levels of War. Armies could maybe be 'built' as armies rather than composed of units, but then how would be combine them?

Also, if we're not paying for units, what are we doing with our gold? It doesn't sound like this'd be domain level play anymore.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:38 pm

Might be fun to all be crammed into one kingdom with very tiny income. More diplomatic and intrigue type game for a long time. Turns would go faster. More coooerative main adventures if Juan isn’t looking at huge and time consuming turns at the same time. All jockeying for rank.

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CI - Charrek Ironfist
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:29 am

Another idea is to NOT raise archers, levies, irregulars.

Raise a level 1 army. Raise it to level 2. Add in some defense. Add in some offense. Raise it to level 3. Add more defense. Raise to level 4.

ONE UNIT.
ONE UNIT to track in birmail. Now maybe I also raise another level 1 army somewhere else. That's fine. But this could cut like avanil from 60 units to 8 or 10.
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by CI - Charrek Ironfist » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:31 am

Training units could also have a DC.
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DM Juan
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Re: Topic: Armies too large

Post by DM Juan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:29 am

Limiting training grounds to 1 for warriors, and smaller map would cause much smaller armies. And equally importantly, caution about sending your army all over because training is slow...

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