Fluff Discussions about what was going on

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:00 pm

Hmm. Too bad we didn't get to continue with that. Namel was suspicious of crystal tech, just on the basis of pure conservatism. She had no such items, either, and was going to pursue an alternate tech path for the sake of contrariness. If the kill switch had ever been deployed, she would have just pointed and laughed.

Namel didn't use a body double to stage her own assassination, instead she deployed her body double to mislead those who believed she'd used a body double to stage her own assassination. Her daughter performed the assassination, and she was really dead. For five minutes. Then she went to Rhyel's academy with a fake ID, and was going to come back in a dozen turns or so after she'd levelled up again. Meanwhile, her son posed as an alter ego, pretending to be the man who'd been pretending to be his father, to pseudousurp the realm.

Namel never had bloodtrait, or gained any personal power from being the head of a faith. So she really was just a philosopher-priest-queen. Even if she'd had an Azrai bloodline, it seems it wouldn't have changed much. I assume Melna did, though I never knew for sure. Didn't seem to change much for her, either.
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DB - Diarmuid
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:04 pm

Daene was NG paladin, trying to do the right thing and wishing everyone would just let everyone else live in peace. By the end he had an ax to grind with Shireen/Gaelin - but was more than willing to put it to rest if the 'Master Race' stuff went away.

His son didn't understand any of the issues really or why his dad was so uptight about the whole thing and really just wanted to get away from all the craziness (since he was basically related in some form or fashion to almaot everyone).
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:12 pm

I don't think any of my characters ever encountered the phrase 'master race' used by anyone during any interaction. The humans in the SRF were 'under the protection of' the elves, but more as dependents than as servants.

The reason why Namel hated Daene, more than anything, was because there seemed to be no possible non-evil motivation for him to take and hold Camlann. What made him think it was the right thing to do?
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:14 pm

Maybe he wanted to hold my shrines hostage

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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by SG - Sigrun Godefroy » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:26 pm

Lekomira was more not trusting those that wanted war as a primary option and wouldnt back down.
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:29 pm

Daene won the duel. By the agreement of the duel it was his. Had this turn finished, everyone would see Daene wasn't terribly attached to land -- was turning over numerous provinces to solidify those realms. He intended the same for Polska, which Wszebora/Lekomira supposedly told Namel about any number of times.

Initially he kept intending to give Camlann to Wszebora with the understanding Namel would behave. It became clear Namel would never behave so we changed agreement to something where Namel wasn't a factor in the transition. Of course by then it became clear Anuire was doing a 5th Column into Polska and the whole area was going to Anuire if Daene didn't help her.

Of course while Daene was trying to help wszebora, Namel is causing Camlann to go into rebellion (after Daene had agreed in an overture of peace that Namel could build holdings there). Long story short, Daene kept trying to ignore Namel and not give into the continual efforts to agitate a response from him.

As stated in discussions to both wszebora and Namel (and others), Daene couldn't stand by and watch Polska fall to Anuire. If it did, everyone else would be rolled up in quick order due to the full-breadth of resources then available to Anuire. He had no intention of using the holdings he had in Polska against Anuire. He was actively building up law and troops for Lekomira at the end so she could stand on her own, but Namel ruined that with her invasion and Lekomira's tacit approval of being invaded.

End of the day, Daene figured Namel could be a cry baby (in his opinion) all she wanted to be. The province was to be wszebora's, so if she was good with the agreement then that's what mattered. Namel's opinion was neither desired nor wanted. And by the end, given how much Anuire had suborned and set Polska to rebellion, Daene felt justified in protecting his wife and daughter from a friend (Namel) who clearly wasn't helping matters but often making matters much much worse.
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:48 pm

That's a long explanation, but not an answer.

'I won a duel, so it's mine' bounces even as a lawful explanation, since the duel was only fought after the fact. It's not a good one.

Namel 'behaved' throughout the entire game in the sense she never took any aggressive actions, except in Camlann, and there only for very specific reasons which were telegraphed far in advance and had clear conditions. It's hard to get more controllable or predictable than that, in any practical sense. Did 'behave' just mean 'be compliant'?

She wasn't trying to 'agitate a response' from Daene. Her ideal was for him to stay out of the region. When he broke his word (as she understood it) by refusing to hand over the province on a flimsy pretext--the 'behavior' clause, which meant it was arbitrary--she did exactly what she'd made clear she intended to do before the agreement was made, act to reverse the original crime. Daene's friend committed it, and Daene stayed her wrath with a promise to remediate. Then he broke that promise. For all appearances, only out of malice, spite, pride, or in a desire for personal gain.

Even if she had been trying to agitate a response, I don't see how it would have been the right thing to do to resist. That seems more 'spiteful' than 'good'. What did he think she was going to do if he handed it over?

If Daene had done so, Namel would have been more willing to give him the benefit of a doubt when he intervened in Polska directly, and even if she didn't, it would have been very difficult for her to justify attacking him after he'd proven he'd keep his word. It seemed his only strategic reason to keep it would be to use it as a potential base of operations, or a stalling tactic. I don't see how either would have done Polska any good. Was he just angry and not thinking straight?

I don't know why you go on about Anuire as part of the explanation. Namel helped put down the rebellion, and she never saw any evidence that Daene did anything to help with it. He looked like an opportunist in Polska, not an ally of them.

You say he was protecting his wife and daughter, but... protecting her from receiving her own province? That doesn't make sense.
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DB - Diarmuid
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:23 am

Wszebora received it back in Turn 24 or so. Not sure why anyone had issues recognizing that (was in the turn report).
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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:30 am

NS - Nehid Sehir wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:48 pm
I don't know why you go on about Anuire as part of the explanation. Namel helped put down the rebellion, and she never saw any evidence that Daene did anything to help with it. He looked like an opportunist in Polska, not an ally of them.
Namel saw whatever she wanted to see. Her reality tended to diverge from how most everyone else saw things. Even when presented with evidence (Galena's head, speak with dead, etc) as to how Anuire was responsible for the insurrection in Polska, Namel still wished to blame Daene for things.

By the end, few listened to Namel as her words spun back on themselves and contradicted themselves repeatedly. Daene stopped responding because it's easier to get a rich man through the eye of a needle and into heaven than to have any sort of rational and successful talk with Namel or her heirs.
"Life is like a bag of cherries, it's pretty good until you bite into the rotten one."

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Re: Fluff Discussions about what was going on

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:36 am

Uhuh. Gaslighting might not be, but divorce from reality is a two-way street, fella.

For one thing, you're mistaking what Daene was blamed for and what Namel believed was true.
Last edited by TH - The Hunt on Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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