Things to do?

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MS - Meaghan Smith
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Re: Things to do?

Post by MS - Meaghan Smith » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:10 pm

The resources taken by a raid (GBs, etc) come directly out of the province owners money...not out of the guilds or temples. This directly correlates to the taxes the province owner is able to bring in.

Temples and guilds, should the raid be directed against them directly, should net no more than they are able to bring in.

Just because a regent has 20 GBs in his treasury, if you're foolish enough to keep raiding his level 1 province off in the hinterlands, should not result in wealth beyond what can be normally gained from the province to magically appear in the raiders hands.

If all there is in the province are some farms and lumber camps, all you are walking away with is some wood and sheep. You don't end up walking away with carts of gold and the finest labors of the realm.

Raids are just that, raids. They come in quickly, grab what they can, and disperse back to their hidey-hole before resistance beyond the local defenders can be called and mustered.
Meaghan 'the Smith'

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JB - Jontinius Bruin
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Re: Things to do?

Post by JB - Jontinius Bruin » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:12 pm

A province has a lot more in it than just the surplus the lord gets to take every once in a while.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Things to do?

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:27 pm

No, the raid rules as they were described divided between every regent in the province. They're only taken directly from the province ruler if there are no other regents in the province.

I think it's absurd that it be limited to collections. Where are all those GB? In a box under the regent's bed? No, they're in warehouses, stockpiles, armouries, and so forth, anywhere valuables and resources are kept. GB also represent labour, and therefore potential slaves. Ransoms would be included, too.

Right now, level 1 provinces are all there is. Late in the game, these level 1 provinces will still only be possible to raid for a few GB, 6 maximum and that's unlikely. The raider would have to be weak, and either desperate or confident the large realm was distracted, to consider spending an action to gain 0 to 6 GB by angering 1 to 4 other regents a good idea.
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MS - Meaghan Smith
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Re: Things to do?

Post by MS - Meaghan Smith » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:38 pm

I think it's absurd you think it's absurd :)

A level 1 province doesn't have 6 GBs laying around in consumables which aren't bolted down and able to be quickly stolen and carried off.

If you want to get more than severe taxation out of a province, you need to occupy it and pillage away. If the (King, Duke, count, Graf, emir, etc) can't get more than 1d3 with severe taxation (this is soldiers literally and systematically taking anything which isn't nailed down, often leaving the peasantry and common-folk without enough to survive -- hence the huge loyalty loss), how in the world do you think a quick raiding group somehow finds up to 6 GBs just laying around and able to be walked off with.

Severe taxation is code for my own lord is raiding me.
Meaghan 'the Smith'

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"What has been built cannot be destroyed, save by those without vision, heart, or inspiration."

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Things to do?

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:47 pm

Every level 1 province in this game has 10 GB sitting around in it on turn 1. Whether they have it later depends on the wealth of the realm at that time.

We could divide the domain's wealth, so that a realm with 100 GB and 10 province levels has 10 GB available to raid in a level 1 province, but that seems like an unnecessary complication when a raid will only take 1 or 2 GBs from each of the four holders in the province (some twice). It'd be a redundant rule with no practical effect.

Severe taxation by definition is still taxation, they're filling a treasury using things not in a treasury. They're not emptying a treasury into different one.
Last edited by TH - The Hunt on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Things to do?

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:48 pm

You have to defeat any forces in the provinces to raid it right? So just make it a normal taxation +1 on the province as to how much the raiders get. The +1 is because they are grabbing SOMETHING at the least and normal tax roll instead of severe because they aren't staying long enough to do thorough searches like the tax collectors would have time to do. Take the number of units raiding out of the equation. If there are no defenders they take a fast loot and drop the loyalty. The people are getting taxed again by the lord the same turn. If he doesn't tax them then as far as the peasants are concerned they were only taxed once so the happiness goes back to normal.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Things to do?

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:51 pm

No, raids avoid a proper battle by having the units break up into small, fast-moving parties that can't be fought as a group. Failures sometimes result in the raiders getting injured or killed, but they never damage the defenders, so if there's a lot of defenders it's useful for them to counterattack. Especially since the raiders will be just over the border.
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JB - Jontinius Bruin
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Re: Things to do?

Post by JB - Jontinius Bruin » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:54 pm

Yup that all checks out, either severe taxation or taxation+1 do address the issue, I might say Severe+1 but we are on the same page in that regard.

1) What we collect is surplus.
2) What we collect is portable

3) In a raid we could reasonably take anything portable, not just surplus.

4) Is severe taxation taking everything that is portable? or is it not?

If it is then Normal+1/Severe/Severe+1 would all be appropriate depending on one specific views.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Things to do?

Post by TH - The Hunt » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:55 pm

Remember that in the late game, anyone who is afraid of getting raided or stolen from will have a treasury building, so they'll only fall victim to it if they're so rich their treasury is overflowing... or if the treasury building was attacked first. This is the smug way to stop raiders from looting your provinces, by storing the wealth somewhere.
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CIC - Duke Cicero
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Re: Things to do?

Post by CIC - Duke Cicero » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:56 pm

I cannot speak for how others manage their wealth, but The Iron Bank's GB are certainly not "sitting around."
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