Province/Regent Alignments
- TH - The Hunt
- Emperor
- Posts: 1224
- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm
Province/Regent Alignments
My thoughts keep coming back to this... If not for the province alignments shown on the map, as players we would never be able to know for sure what alignment the other PCs are. I understand it's useful for the DM to be able to see what province alignments are, track them, and change them this way, but I'm not sure it's worth losing uncertainty about what alignment the other realms and regents are at the start of the game. Especially when it starts being used to justify what they do.
A possible solution would be to assume that provinces are the same alignment as their starting regent, and not bother to mark that on the map. (If that makes it tricky to apply the action penalties, we could just ignore them, the extra -1 or -2 doesn't mean much.) We'd also remove the ability to shift province alignments with Agitate or Leadership. Instead, they'd generate events when the province alignment didn't match the regent's, and shift when and only when those events were resolved well enough. (Otherwise, the regent could shift alignment to match the province, an option with its own perils.)
I think bringing the mystery back could save us some headaches. Alignment, and enforcing the consequences of going against it, would be firmly in DM hands. With the exception of cases where a PC admits to having a restrictive character class--and only to the extent they were believed, or could prove it with divine powers--players wouldn't be able to use their alignment to justify their actions to (or toward) other players, or criticize other players for their interpretation of it.
My main concern is less the spoiler, and more the sense of legitimacy players can get from having their character's alignment broadcast on the map, with the implication that others have to respect what they do because of it.
A possible solution would be to assume that provinces are the same alignment as their starting regent, and not bother to mark that on the map. (If that makes it tricky to apply the action penalties, we could just ignore them, the extra -1 or -2 doesn't mean much.) We'd also remove the ability to shift province alignments with Agitate or Leadership. Instead, they'd generate events when the province alignment didn't match the regent's, and shift when and only when those events were resolved well enough. (Otherwise, the regent could shift alignment to match the province, an option with its own perils.)
I think bringing the mystery back could save us some headaches. Alignment, and enforcing the consequences of going against it, would be firmly in DM hands. With the exception of cases where a PC admits to having a restrictive character class--and only to the extent they were believed, or could prove it with divine powers--players wouldn't be able to use their alignment to justify their actions to (or toward) other players, or criticize other players for their interpretation of it.
My main concern is less the spoiler, and more the sense of legitimacy players can get from having their character's alignment broadcast on the map, with the implication that others have to respect what they do because of it.
Last edited by TH - The Hunt on Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The Hunt rides. The Hunt protects."
- YK - Yuri Khavlor
- King
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- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:13 pm
Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Regents are not their provinces. As you said -1 or -2 doesn't mean much, and I know several regents who chose different alignments for their settlements.
You should not know a regents alignment, even by their actions. They may well be trying to fool someone into thinking they are a good person. Magic and blood abilities were created for that purpose. Also I don't think anyone wants to get into any OOC debates whether a person is playing their alignment.
With a province you can tell the alignment. You walk into a hive of scum and villainy you will notice immediately that people conduct themselves differently than back home at the hippie commune, or the fuhrer's capital.
You should not know a regents alignment, even by their actions. They may well be trying to fool someone into thinking they are a good person. Magic and blood abilities were created for that purpose. Also I don't think anyone wants to get into any OOC debates whether a person is playing their alignment.
With a province you can tell the alignment. You walk into a hive of scum and villainy you will notice immediately that people conduct themselves differently than back home at the hippie commune, or the fuhrer's capital.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Your provinces don't have to match your alignment at start, if you wish to cloak your personal alignment in return for a -1 or -2 to actions.
- SG - Sigrun Godefroy
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- TH - The Hunt
- Emperor
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- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:27 pm
Re: Province/Regent Alignments
(Edited in a bottom line at the end.)
I think regent whose alignment is a bad match for their realm should have a stronger pressure to fix it than the action penalties. Like, being repeatedly be thrown into Morton's Fork situations where they will either fail to do what their realm wants them to do or fail to do what their own alignment requires of them. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the point of having province alignments is.
(This should be only mildly restrictive, not crippling, if the regent and realm alignments are not far apart.)
I think regent whose alignment is a bad match for their realm should have a stronger pressure to fix it than the action penalties. Like, being repeatedly be thrown into Morton's Fork situations where they will either fail to do what their realm wants them to do or fail to do what their own alignment requires of them. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the point of having province alignments is.
(This should be only mildly restrictive, not crippling, if the regent and realm alignments are not far apart.)
Last edited by TH - The Hunt on Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Hunt rides. The Hunt protects."
- YK - Yuri Khavlor
- King
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Re: Province/Regent Alignments
If the province you take an action is has a different alignment, you action is harder by 1 or 2.
1 If you share on Alignment
2 if you don't share either alignment
1 If you share on Alignment
2 if you don't share either alignment
YK - Yuri Khavlor
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
- SG - Sigrun Godefroy
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:56 am
Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Ah so like LG and Ng would be a -1 bit LG and TN would be -2
Sigrun Godefroy warrior of Hircine
- YK - Yuri Khavlor
- King
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Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Exactly,
It's on par with cultural& language penalties, so it makes sense if there is a values gap too.
It's on par with cultural& language penalties, so it makes sense if there is a values gap too.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
Lord Mayor of Lyssan
“Nature is not cruel, but pitilessly indifferent. The hardest lesson for one to learn, is to admit that things might be neither good nor evil, but simply callous -- indifferent to all suffering"
- CIC - Duke Cicero
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Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Back in Taelshore, as a non-landed temple, I was often using my leadership freebies every turn to change province alignments, where I didn't exactly see eye to eye with the province ruler. Province alignments seem not to change much the last couple games and I think part of that is (almost) everyone being landed and the starting from scratch factor.
Duke Cicero
Mayor of Salviene
A man so deep, he's almost unfathomable!
A man so quick, he's even fast asleep!
Mayor of Salviene
A man so deep, he's almost unfathomable!
A man so quick, he's even fast asleep!
- CSF - Flint
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- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:32 pm
Re: Province/Regent Alignments
Cole made a lot of province alignment changes this game. No one seemed to notice or comment.
Captain Shanol Flint