Stronghold

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Stronghold

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:34 pm

Warding is usually firmly better than a level 10 fortification. In both cases, the only practical remedy is to Dispel Magic, or go somewhere else until it's over.

One of the advantages of Stronghold is that it ignores the remote province/difficult terrain multipliers on construction costs, but we've been ignoring those anyway, for some reason.
Py - Pyroneous wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:24 pm
...eaten by the better, faster, smarter members of the herd.
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YK - Yuri Khavlor
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Re: Stronghold

Post by YK - Yuri Khavlor » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:48 pm

RM - Ragrum Mithrilhand wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:32 pm
I don't think its that overpowered. First you need a L7 Source. Second it costs a lot of RP. 80 RP for a L10 Fort, 50 RP for a L5 Mine, etc. Can only make it permanent if you have a l12 Wizard.
In past games it was much harder to get to L12 then this round, but that's a different story and can maybe be talked about after this round.
I think it's strong, but not sure if it crosses over into the realm of an exploit. The primary intended use as an instant fortress is less powerful then a Warding spell.

Perhaps a duration tweak or cap if it is way out of line with traditional building methods. Action Cost / Resource Cost / time until available; are what I would look to balance between wizards of various levels casting vs constructing the buildings. Are the tradeoffs worthwhile, or a no brainer?


Fortifications and buildings could have different durations.

I would suggest the building 5 / fort 10 would require 5x /10x permanency castings.

Available Building slots available from court level can be a soft cap of the strength of the spell
Available Building Slots from holdings/province could be a soft cap (Increased cost) or hard cap on size of stronghold buildings.
YK - Yuri Khavlor
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Stronghold

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:54 pm

Should be able to make any building at all but the wizard himself can only use buildings that are free for all or that the wizard chose as his class buildings. This allows the wizard to hire out making any building to those needing his services. And can make the spell have a caster level of like 9th level (Wall of Stone and Wall of Iron) which will prevent early turn ass beatings.

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Stronghold

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:58 pm

Just really gotta stop the trend of shackling players and changing rules that cut off original thinking. It is devolving to the point that you have only a few courses of action depending on your class with no new or innovative ideas or plots etc and that leads to stagnation as people get tired of the same old thing.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Stronghold

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:22 pm

If we don't change the rules when exploits are found, there will be no original thinking. Exploits provide easy but narrow shortcuts to results that would otherwise take complex effort to achieve. Restrictions on those don't cause stagnation, they prevent it.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Stronghold

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:29 pm

Too many good moves being labeled as exploits by the unimaginative.

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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Stronghold

Post by TH - The Hunt » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:47 pm

I can imagine how interesting the game would be if every PC was the same class, to use the same spells the same way because these were such 'good moves'.
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TF - The Fortress
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Re: Stronghold

Post by TF - The Fortress » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:50 pm

It's probably not an exploit or it would have been continued to see abuse in multiple games afterwards. Clumine had access to higher source initially and as I recall pillaged their own province to make room for the source to expand. Only after that was done did they then put the magical laboratory in place.

Multiple wizards since and none of them insta-spawned buildings really. It is a niche spell with potential solid uses if planned for and considered in advance.

Does it break the game. No.
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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Stronghold

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:51 pm

You imagine? You've played the same character in every game. You get in a war, you get slapped down and you pretend it didn't happen the rest of the game. You're already caught in the stagnation baby!

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WM - The Waste Mage
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Re: Stronghold

Post by WM - The Waste Mage » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:52 pm

:D

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