Topic: Demi Humans too good

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DB - Diarmuid
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:13 pm

NS - Nehid Sehir wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:09 pm
Right, it doesn't make sense for a regent to level up faster just because they have a big purse with loose pursestrings.

I don't think character level was ever a problem for game balance, though I would like a smoother progression, so that the distribution is wider. It's strange when nearly every regent is between level 7 and 9. It seems to be there should be several of level 1-5 regents in the world at any given time.

Academies were a big influence, of course... level 5 ones allowed regents to level up faster by going to school than by living like Michael Roele. I never liked that, and would prefer if the only way for characters to gain XP was adventures or ruling a domain. That way, inexperienced regents might take the throne sometimes, and have a vulnerable period. Good trope.

Even better, there'd be a reason for would-be heirs to try to make a name for themselves.
Agree... Academy XP needs to go.
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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:17 pm

Back on topic, though... If the level caps from the rulebook were implemented along with the class restrictions, I think that would be good. That'd push demihuman characters into certain roles, so that even though they can live longer, their power is still limited, unless they're the ideal class.

I just noticed in the BR rulebook, there are no triple-class options. I like that. Dividing XP by 3 gives me a headache.

A level cap (that can plausibly be reached) for everyone is something I dislike strongly. And we proved last game that there doesn't need to be a level cap to stop characters from levelling up. Hundreds of thousands of XP per level does it, too.
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TH - The Hunt
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:41 pm

I was curious, so I looked up the level/class restrictions for the rest of the races, on the 2e rules site.

Gnoll: Fighter 11, Cleric 9, Thief 11
Goblin: Fighter 10, Cleric 9, Thief 12
Ogre: Fighter 12, Priest 3

Orogs aren't listed, but 12/9/11 seems likely, based on some of the others. Presumably multi-class characters would just pick two.

Makes me wonder what sort of relationship goblins would have had with magic before humans arrived in Cerilia.
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by BB - Bronzebeard » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:28 pm

I think Academy EXP is beneficial for LTs. It should not be for Regents. It is also to much per turn and the max level is to high.
Suggestions:
Academies only help LTs. There is no benefit for any character who is or was a Regent.
Regents can recruit LTs from the Academy with EXP of a character of Academy level.
LTs sent to the Academy for an entire turn for training, earn 1,000 XP per Academy level. (perhaps even less than 1,000 per level??)
Max EXP that can be trained to is EXP of a character of Academy level+1.

This would limit LTs being trained to level 6 at most, and for heirs it would take 5+ turns of training to max out. More turns if EXP is less than 1,000 per level.


Because most of the classes have realm level abilities that are level dependent, I feel the regents should be relatively grouped in levels. Also having characters that are to much lower than the average of the group on a Main adventure is a problem. Academy EXP allows heirs to get up to a reasonable level before taking over the rei(g)ns.

Personally, I have always been against level caps and racial class restrictions. It seemed too artificial. Most game systems, including D&D did away with them. But with a max of 1,000,000 XP in the game that gives a max level of 16 for single class, 12/12 for 2 classes and 10/10/10 for 3 classes. Since most caps are in the 9-12+ range with increases for high stats it should not have much, if any, effect either way.
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JB - Jontinius Bruin
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by JB - Jontinius Bruin » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:18 pm

Yeah Academies should not be better than actually adventuring

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WB - Water's Blessing
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by WB - Water's Blessing » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:42 pm

One way to head off the exp problem is to say that academies can only train you up to the level of the academy, in addition to letting you recruit LTs of a specific class. Studying at the academy can earn you a flat 1000 exps per year, but they can only give you exps up to the level of the academy. So, a level 1 academy can train non-classed people in a specific class (priests), level 2 can take you up to 1500 exps (2 years), level 3 can take you up to 3k exp (3 years), lvl 4 up to 6k (@ 6 years), and lvl 5 up to 12k exp (if you want to spend 12 years studying there.) Additionally, or instead, you could rule that you can only train at the academy if they can train and produce your class.
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DM Juan
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by DM Juan » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:02 pm

I will just make them grant LTs of Level+1, and your kids can attend from 15-20 (or equivalent by race), and they then come out at Academy+1 level as well. Easier all around to track, and basically keeps you 1-6 from an Academy.

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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:15 pm

It being 'helpful for lieutenants' seems to work from the assumption lieutenants should be receiving the same amount of XP as regents, even if they're not adventuring. I don't think there's any particular reason for that. It's fine for lieutenants to have lower character levels than regents.

If hiring a lieutenant is based on the amount of money spent, the regent's level, or both, that'd also provide a way to gain high-level lieutenants, without the need for old ones to go adventuring. If a lieutenant being too low level is a problem, but the regent doesn't want to replace them, another way to resolve that would be to declare that the regent is adventuring on their own, 'off-screen', in a way that doesn't affect domain level play. They could gain XP this way, but at the risk that they leave the regent's service, one way or another. Then the player has to decide whether it's more important to keep the lieutenant safe or to keep them advancing.
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by TH - The Hunt » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:39 pm

I think having academies provide unlimited services is part of the problem with them, it adds to unstable equilibrium and reduces the depth of the setting and characters.

I don't think it makes sense for them to provide XP, because I think 'XP' represents real-world experience. But if they're going to do it anyway, it might be good if providing that XP costs GB every turn, based on the academy level, maybe with an extra fee based on distance (which would only need to be calculated once per court and academy.)

Besides reducing the role academies play in the game overall--so that using them isn't a do or die proposition--this would give players a reason to use academies other than the biggest one in the world, and to build them in their own region. They might also prioritize, instead throwing all the lieutenants they're not using at the academy every turn.
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DB - Diarmuid
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Re: Topic: Demi Humans too good

Post by DB - Diarmuid » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:15 pm

Can also leave GBs from adventures at same level, just charge .5 to 1 GB per LT beyond the first per turn as upkeep. Those who wish to maintain large retinues of LTs have higher costs to go with the ability to do adventures without drawing in other regents.
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